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ELECTION 2008: Men challenge process that set Sierra Vista school budget override vote

By Katie Evans
Herald/Review
Published/Last Modified on Saturday, Sep 27, 2008 - 02:55:50 pm MST

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SIERRA VISTA — A lawsuit filed Friday alleges the Sierra Vista school district has not followed the law in its pursuit of a new budget override.

The lawsuit, filed by attorney Sidney Kain on behalf of Sierra Vista residents Anthony Wenc and Ron Murray, alleges the district has failed to adopt and make public a budget for the 2009-2010 school year, and that it hasn’t provided a copy of such a budget to the state superintendent of schools.

The document filed lists Cochise County school Superintendent Trudy Berry and the Sierra Vista school board as the defendants.

“There is no statutory authority for the board’s action taken on Aug. 5, 2008, ordering an override election on a proposed budget that has not been submitted to the district residents or taxpayers for their review and comment,” the document reads. “If such budget is subsequently approved by the voters, plaintiffs and others similar situated will have been denied their right to provide review and comments …

“As a consequence, plaintiffs will be irreparably injured in that they will be required to pay taxes to support a school budget that they had no opportunity to review or comment on in a public forum.”

In the documents filed with the Cochise County Superior Court office in Sierra Vista, Wenc and Murray requested a preliminary injunction be granted to keep the override off the ballot until a ruling is made on the lawsuit by a judge.

Murray, in a phone interview Friday evening, said he would have no problems with an override if he felt it were valid.

“The problem with this override is that it’s based on an alleged budget for next year, not for this year’s budget,” he said. “They do not know what the financial situation from the state for 2009-2010 will be, they’re making an estimate.

“I haven’t seen anything that indicates to me that they have done enough to demonstrate that there is a real need (for an override) … particularly when we’re looking at a year out.”

Wenc and Kain did not immediately return requests seeking comment on Friday afternoon.

Sierra Vista schools Superintendent Brett Agenbroad said it would be impossible to approve next year’s budget now, and said the district has followed the law in pursuing an override.

“We followed the law according to three very knowledgeable bond attorneys who we used as consultants through this whole (override) process, and the (Arizona) Department of Education finance people we referred our questions, too,” he said. “The Murrays and the Wences have interpreted the law as they have interpreted it, and they are apparently going to have to have a judge convince them, or not, that we have followed the law.”

“There’s no way we could adopt next year’s budget,” Agenbroad continued. “We developed what we were supposed to: A proposed budget if it (the override) passed and if it didn’t so the board would have some guidelines.”

Agenbroad alleges that in the court documents, Wenc and Murray’s attorney was “very selective” in the lines of the referenced laws he used — A.R.S. 15-481 and A.R.S. 15-905 — and took them “out of context.”

Agenbroad said he also doubts the injunction will be successful, as the early ballots were being delievered to the printer on Friday or Monday, according to what he was told by the Cochise County Attorney’s Office. Early voting starts Thursday.

“I’m assuming the ballot question will be on the November ballot irregardless of what they filed today,” he said, adding Wenc and Murray waited too long to file a challenge.

Murray said it took time to compile information and determine whether a lawsuit should be pursued.

“You just don’t jump forward taking action,” he said. “You have to try getting remedy through other action.”

Wenc, with the support of Murray, filed a lawsuit against the override currently in place — which the district is seeking to replace with the override that will appear on the November ballot — in June 2004 after it was approved by voters.

In that lawsuit, Wenc requested the vote be nullified because he alleged the school district did not advertise its budget as prescribed by law, did not send all registered voters an informational packet and opened at least one polling place at 5:16 a.m. — 44 minutes before the official 6 a.m. start time.

Wenc’s 2004 lawsuit was not successful. Murray said it was so because it was filed too late.

“Although the rationale may have been reasonable, the fact that it was not filed in a timely manner” affected the outcome of the case, Murray said.

Sierra Vista school board member Hal Thomas said it’s “frustrating” to have lawsuits filed against the overrides, and he wishes the parties involved would choose a different way to fix what they perceive as problems.

“I think if these people are so interested in making sure the school district operates fiscally the way they think it should operate, they should have gotten their petitions in and run for the (school) board,” he said, pointing out three seats had been up for re-election had anyone chosen to run against the incumbents. “If they had been serious about this, they would have gotten on the ballot instead of sitting back and taking cheap shots.”

HERALD/REVIEW reporter Katie Evans can be reached at 515-4611 or by e-mail at katie.evans@svherald.com.

ABOUT THE OVERRIDE PROPOSAL

The Sierra Vista school board is pursuing a 9 percent budget override in the Nov. 4 election.

The current override, which is in its fifth year, is a 10 percent override that will decrease to 6.6 percent next year as it enters its sixth year and 3.3 percent in its seventh year. This means, if a new override fails, the tax rate would decrease from $0.7033 to $0.60 per $100 next year.

The 10 percent override is generating an additional $3,113,086 for the maintenance and operations budget. A drop to 6.6 percent would generate $2,159,650, while the 9 percent override the district is pursuing would generate $2,915,527.

ON THE NET

To see the documents filed by Anthony Wenc and Ron Murray, log onto http://www.svherald.com/documents/wenc_murray.pdf

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Michael Schwers wrote on Oct 24, 2008 4:32 AM:

" Jesus you two! It was bad enough you made a mockery of yourselves before the Judge in 2004 regarding what Mr. Wenc considered voter fraud at the Town and Country polling station; followed on the heels of Ron Murray's editorial about voting the property rights of other people. Still have that 18th century elitist attitude I see! Now you two are at it again trying to keep the override off the November ballot. You can call me a "shill" all you want, but I refuse to maneuver around the edges of the flame with you two on this issue. "

Editor Why II wrote on Oct 12, 2008 6:30 PM:

" Why do readers always have to correct you, try and keep you and yours doing you job, and give us more info than the original story does? "

editor why wrote on Oct 12, 2008 11:46 AM:

" why is this story still showing in the most talked about? It has been over 14 days, and now it also shows only 82 posts, whereas last night it had 129. The same question for the Obama story on top, that is well over 14 days too.
EDITOR'S NOTE: Thank you for the comment, we'll have our IT guy check into why this is happening. "

To Get the facts wrote on Oct 11, 2008 7:33 PM:

" Please tell us what the principals do, and why they need so many? Would the school do better if they had 10 principals? "

doomed wrote on Oct 11, 2008 12:16 PM:

" In the old days, children walked miles to have the priviledge of an education. Brought their lunch. Used a slate and chalk....etc Parents sacrificed farm chores to better their childrens future. Now we expect everything handed to us.....free breakfast, lunch, free rides, special programs for every single possible defect a person can have. I am voting no override. Kids and parents are not even thankful for all they do receive. They just expect and want more at someone else's expense. "

Opportunity wrote on Oct 11, 2008 11:32 AM:

" This economic boat has just been hit by a torpedo, and its going to take a lot more than aquaseal to survive. Get accustomed to less money coming from the public. Work smarter. Find ways to survive without the extra money. After all, the ballot box is the finishing point of this discussion. From what I hear in the neighborhood, frugality will soon be a byword in this district. "

potential wrote on Oct 11, 2008 8:50 AM:

" "Opportunity"
Yes everyone will have to cough up a bit. But is it fair to hamper the public education the children are getting? You got yours, they derserve theirs. On the retirement system, look at how some in the educatiuon system reite then come back and collect full retirement with 80% pay, that double dipping hurts the pocket book. Ouch! "

Get the facts wrote on Oct 11, 2008 7:11 AM:

" To Real: Where do you get your information that the principals at Buena "do nothing"? Perhaps you should spend some time there and see what they really do. They are the best!! "

Opportunity wrote on Oct 10, 2008 9:21 PM:

" Good thing we have a chance to reign in some taxes by voting NO. When this market crash hits the state retirement system, every school district in AZ will need to cough up big dough to fix the huge deficit in the retirement system balance sheet. This means huge tax increases in all districts. At least we have an opportunity to get a handle on these taxes early in the game. Everyone must sacrifice in these times. Even those on AZ state retirement pensions. Get used to sacrifices. Its good for the soul, especially when one has no alternatives. "

Real wrote on Oct 10, 2008 12:23 PM:

" This district IS top heavy. Buena has 4 or 5 vice principles. They all do nothing and cost MUCH more than they're worth. Get rid of them first. "

Exasperated wrote on Oct 10, 2008 9:09 AM:

" For your Info John P, I am a proud and registered Republican. What I am not is a sleazy drain on society like those I wrote about. I will be voting (I have not decided yet) based on the facts and not unfounded claims. The rabid "No" folks went to court last time and were soundly defeated. There is not a vocal "No" person in these posts with any truthful or accurate arguements against the override. I went to the district office and State internet sites for factual information from which I will make my decision. "

Exasperated wrote on Oct 10, 2008 7:27 AM:

" It is fine if "No means No" votes no. It is also fine to provide constructive criticism. What is not ok and shows one's true colors are the negatave and personal attacks on those who in spite of any mistakes are attempting to do the best job possible. To launch vicious attacks on people who volunteer to do a job no one else wants to do is just plain wrong! "

No Cigar wrote on Oct 10, 2008 7:06 AM:

" to "potential:" I, too, lived in the east before coming here, but have lived all over the US. You're right about the good 'ole boy network and about the courts. It's not always what you know, but who you know here. The passionate "no" voters you see here stem from years of overrides, a huge tax mistake by the school district, and now another override request before the last one even expires. The district decides who/what gets cut. It doesn't have to be teachers, but that's what they choose vs say, sports. They are largely distrusted. "

john p wrote on Oct 10, 2008 2:26 AM:

" Exasperated why must you resort to name calling? Answer Liberals such as yourself thrive on name calling. A tacit used when they have no valid argument.Murray and Wenc will in court next Tuesday morning Oct 14.They are not hiding. Must be digging into your rice bowl huh. To bad .You all can whine all you want but my vote is still no. "

NO means NO wrote on Oct 9, 2008 8:06 PM:

" It is unclear why some, seemingly mostly yes voters, claim that just because one is opposed to the override or finds faults with the district's budget management or lack thereof, that somehow you were supposed to run for school board. That is a whole different kettle of fish. VOTING NO and will not run for the board. "

Potential wrote on Oct 9, 2008 5:07 PM:

" No Cigar, I agree with you on the Salary/budget. I just think the students and teachers shouldn't have to suffer any consequences. I do not think a law suit is going to do anything, unless the courts can remove certain people from certain positions. Coming from the east, I find AZ courts in this area to be a bit, lets say, behind the times. The good ole boy network thrives in SV. I cannot even vote on your override. I did vote yes on Saint Davids. But then, Saint David is capable of providing a sound budget. "

Exasperated wrote on Oct 9, 2008 4:57 PM:

" The venom and hatred spewed by the likes of Ms. OConnor does nothing but hold our community back. She can constantly criticize the school board of UNPAID VOLUNTEERS yet she is not brave enough to run herself. There were three positions open this year on the school board. These are the very positions that infuence whether or not we have overrides and how the school district manages its money. Did she or Mr Wenc or any of the Murrays run? Heck no! They are a bunch of old cowards who seem to talk the talk yet can't walk the walk. "

unreal. wrote on Oct 9, 2008 3:32 PM:

" Where are you people getting the impression that the district is "top heavy" in administrators? - compared to what district? I have found that this district is exceptionally lean when it comes to administration. Cite your comparisons. Explain how the district isn't "living within its means." Truth is, you don't know and you are mistaken. Mr. Agenbroad has cut nearly 300K (where? email him and ask!!) in cuts. Your argument is like telling someone to drive to Tucson with no gas in the tank and then blaming them when they request gas.Ridiculous. "

No Cigar wrote on Oct 9, 2008 9:11 AM:

" "potential teacher," it's not for you to decide how Mr. Wenc and Mr. Murray spend THEIR money. If is THEIR money. And, just who is that can't balance a budget? Certainly not the citizens who live within their means. This district is top heavy in administrators. Administration salaries are obscenely high in a district this size. Cut those before asking taxpayers to shoulder more of the burden. And, when does it end? This district has a history of depending on overrides to make ends meet vs actually balancing and budget and living within that budget. "

Sick to Death wrote on Oct 9, 2008 5:58 AM:

" To "plenty of other places for you:" Now you're getting silly. I'm not going anywhere. I have way too much money tied up in my house (that I couldn't get back in this economy). I might have made a different decision as to where I settled had I known, in advance, that I'd be fighting continual tax increases due to overrides, but it's a moot point now. What I can do, and will do, is vote no on this override. "

Hey Arnold wrote on Oct 8, 2008 10:44 PM:

" OConnor, we are in agreement on this one. Seems like a reasonable request to me. "

OConnor wrote on Oct 8, 2008 7:20 PM:

" "Hey Arnold" your comment about someone's failure to indicate which institution granted a degree reminded me that until only a few months ago, none of the SVPSD board members' biographies were listed on their webpage. I asked and they were added but without dates/colleges shown. No way to verify the accuracy of the information. The granting institution does make a difference; to omit them makes me wonder if it is some paper mill or degree factory (of which the District has some in high places). Certainly school board members should let their educational and work background be verifiable. "

Iconoclast wrote on Oct 8, 2008 7:04 PM:

" To the person wanting to know if all us "haters" didn't go to public school back in the old days - well, yes, young sprout, I did. I walked to and from school and carried my lunch (packed by my Mother who then went on to work) after having breakfast at home. There were four of us for Mom to support and we all did just fine in this world. Now, tell me why today's children require transportation, breakfast, counseling, and any number of other things for which parents should be responsible? "

Happy Pagan wrote on Oct 8, 2008 6:58 PM:

" An honors student is not eligible for an alternative school? And she was advised to drop out? Now, perhaps, Hal Thomas will quit complaining about how the charter schools are stealing "our" students. The district has an absurdely small amount of money in their budget for gifted students ($65,000 I believe). Now, for gifted students, I'd consider paying more. To the young person who shared that information with us, thank you and best wishes (although with your "moxie" you won't need luck). "

Independent wrote on Oct 8, 2008 6:53 PM:

" My quandry is, while I esteem teachers, I don't trust this district. If I wanted others to continue giving a "gift" of many millions (current override), I'd explain how I'd examined every facet of the district operations to economize. Instead, this district tried to run a scam (waiting until the last legal day to call for the override) and then not telling anyone (nor did this newspaper) that the deadline for submitting pro/con statements for the voter pamphlet was 8 days hence. I see dishonesty by district personnel, board members, and this newspaper. VOTE NO. "

Plenty of places for you wrote on Oct 8, 2008 6:29 PM:

" To "Sick to Death" & "Bleeding us Dry", MOVE! "

potential teacher wrote on Oct 8, 2008 11:09 AM:

" Either way "no Cigar" it is a waste of funds no matter where it comes from. I am not saying the district does not need some revamping and certain folks should be held accountable. My concern is the kids who will have to pay by having crowded classrooms because of teacher layoffs. Is this fair to them that a bunch of grown ups cannot agree or balance a budget. Plus, consider this, AZ is #50 in the US in education, how sad is that? Some cream has to come off the top, not the bottom. "

No cigar wrote on Oct 8, 2008 7:14 AM:

" "Potential teacher" needs to get his/her facts straight. The school district has attorneys on retainer (county attorneys) - just to handle any legal issues so there is no additional district money being spent. The plaintiffs are spending their own money. Sounds like you need a law course as well. Quit trying to inject things into this that simply aren't there. "

FYI wrote on Oct 7, 2008 8:14 PM:

" For those interested, the hearing for the case will be Tuesday Oct. 14 at 10:00 am with a judge Conlogue in Bisbee. I don't think the Herald has reported this. "

nice try wrote on Oct 7, 2008 7:59 PM:

" News for you, according to agenbroad, the bond counsel gave its advice "free" (get what you pay for) and the county attorneys office represents the school district under contract so no extra cost, that is why they are retained for legal matters (all tax payers pay). So you are wrong trying to reverse the issue, you are too blind sided in voting yes, you don't understand what is even going on with the budget (none exists) and the court system. "

a potential teacher of the arts wrote on Oct 7, 2008 4:16 PM:

" If you are going to vote against the override you are only hurting the schools and the students. Going after a school district with guns and lawyers is only going to hurt the district more. The only ones that benefit are the lawyers. You hurt the district, you hurt your property values. It all trickles down some how. Instead, make sure in the future you all keep track of how spending occurs and remember that when it is time to vote for persons of responsible positions. "

To God Bless wrote on Oct 7, 2008 12:10 PM:

" Ultimately they are the ones robbing the citizens and children of our community! Now the SVPS has to pay for legal representation reducing moneys available in the general operating fund ultimately in the end reducing services to our children. This will cost the district at least one teachers salery for a year, how can this be seen as good? The voters are the deciding group not a judge. Wenk and Murray are going to have more money squandered on them than a typical student or a needed teacher I hope the district counters with a recouptment suit! "

Sick to Death wrote on Oct 7, 2008 10:59 AM:

" of the school district's sense of entitlement. I worked hard all my life, paid my bills on time, paid my taxes, and saved for retirement. I still pay my bills on time and pay my taxes, but the economy and the greed of Wall Street has significantly reduced my retirement investments and therefore, my income. I've had it with others feeling that they are somehow entitled to more of what I worked to save. It's not yours, you didn't earn it so stay the h*** out of my back pocket! "

To Bleeding us Dry cont. wrote on Oct 7, 2008 8:05 AM:

" If you live in a house valued well over half a million dollars, and can't afford the $25 dollars a month (which would be DOWN from what you are currently paying - IF your house is that expensive, which I doubt), then you shouldn't be living in that house, because you can't afford it. Your math is wrong. Period. Please get the facts before you spread misinformation. And rest easy - your taxes will not increase due to the override. "

To Bleeding us Dry wrote on Oct 7, 2008 8:02 AM:

" You are wrong. Your taxes will NOT increase by 300 dollars. In fact, they will DECREASE. You are simply mistaken. This would not cost you 300 dollars unless you had an assed value of nearly 500,000 (which is roughly 75% of what you could sell it for). You are currently paying for a 10% override, the new override will be LESS - it's not 9% in addition, it's INSTEAD of the 10%. What is there not to understand about that? You will not see ANY increase due to the override. "

God Bless wrote on Oct 6, 2008 6:48 PM:

" The "two men" for at least trying to do something to keep us from being robbed by more taxes. "

To Independant wrote on Oct 6, 2008 12:29 PM:

" The 40m you mention is considerably lower per student (5714.28) than the state average and nearly half the national average making SVPS strech what is essentialy the lowest "per student" funded district in the nation, what an embarrasing title to hold! I would suggest that the per student actual educational average spent on the students is actually lower when you factor in transportation, maintenance, energy cost's, substinance and administration to the tune of 15 to 20% lower. You criticize quality yet refuse to pay for excelence and then blame the district, the fault is yous, not the district! VOTE YES! "

Bleeding Us Dry wrote on Oct 6, 2008 10:59 AM:

" To "Independent:" Let's face it, the school district's word is WORTHLESS. We will have to just get used to continually fighting this because they will come after more and more as often as they can. If this albatross passes, my taxes rise by $300, and that's without county increases, fire dept increases, and Cochise College increases. Might have to sell and become a renter because I won't be able to afford my house. "

Hereford wrote on Oct 5, 2008 9:02 PM:

" I read how some disagreed with the title the editor chose to use to label this article. I do find it quite unusual but I don't think the Herald was trying to be sexist. I would agree that if it were two women who filed it, chances are "Women" probably wouldn't have been in the caption. But what if it was a man and a woman, or two men and two women........hmmmm.......... "

Independent wrote on Oct 5, 2008 8:01 PM:

" To "Bleeding" - wrong. They return every five years (because thereafter revenue declines in the final years to zero (see Billy g's post below).
At an almost $40 million annual budget, these people are educating fewer than 7000 students. Someone do the math for me please. Now, let's talk educational necessities. Priorities. Economize. Oversight. Results. How about innovation. OK we'll forget innovation. How about frugal? Hummm. "

To Bleeding Us Dry wrote on Oct 5, 2008 7:17 PM:

" Your right! The last override has two years to go, and they are fudging figures, years, and precentages to try and make us think we are getting a deal, if we vote yes. Anyone that can't see that is blind. "

Bleeding Us Dry wrote on Oct 5, 2008 6:49 AM:

" This district will ALWAYS choose the maximum 7 years for an override. It will also come back for another one every 7 years - if not sooner. The extent of their greed knows no end. That they would skirt around the statutes is no big surprise because they wouldn't know "honesty" if it hit them in the face. VOTE NO! "

wrong again wrote on Oct 4, 2008 5:21 PM:

" All overrides are not 7 years, that is the maximum allowed to ask. They can ask for 3 years, 2 years, 1 year. Of course this district chose 7 years to avoid accountability for another 7 years. "

to Billy G wrote on Oct 4, 2008 7:03 AM:

" Because the proposed override, if passed, will replace the current override. It's not that complicated. No laws are broken. That's just how it works "

read the laws wrote on Oct 4, 2008 12:23 AM:

" Most posts on this article focus on vote yes or no. I bet few bothered to read the actual statutes that were violated by the district. They are lenghty to read, but when you read the pertinent parts, you will see a hearing is required on a PROPOSED budget BEFORE calling an override. This is where Agenbroad is wrong stating it could not be "adopted." Proposing a budget and adopting a budget are two different elements of the overall budget process. "

OConnor wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:47 PM:

" Well, Wenc and Murray are spending their own money to pursue their beliefs. And, if the three "very knowledgeable bond attorneys" used by the district have done their job well (and, as Mr. Agenbroad told me, without charge to the district) then this suit should not take long to resolve and at little additional cost to the district. My objection to the override has always been that the district has done little, if anything, to cut spending which would make the override unnecessary. If they have taken measures, they should let them be known to allay concerns. "

billy g wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:10 PM:

" An override supporter states below that "all overrides are for 7 years, by law. During the 6th and 7th years of the override, there is a "step down" process where it goes from 10% to 6.6, then 3.3 and finally to zero" Well read the override pamphlet sent out to voters by berry. The text of the ballot plainly states the override if passed will be at 9 per cent for 7 years. So explain how the SV district and the county school supertentdent is getting away with breaking state law? Answer please editor comments welcome "

To Wenc and Murray wrote on Oct 3, 2008 3:16 PM:

" How much are you costing the taxpayer with your continued frivolous lawsuits? Aren't you supposed to be against tax abuse? Pathetic. "

Irregardless wrote on Oct 3, 2008 12:38 PM:

" Mr. Agenbroad is quoted by the reporter as using the word "irregardless." If the reporter knew that the correct form is "regardless" then she should have marked his error, as "(sic)". I think the reporter is the source of the error because she did not use this marking to show readers that the error was his, not hers. I think that he was misquoted. "

I get it now wrote on Oct 3, 2008 10:27 AM:

" After reading what to confused had to say. And it gives me more reason to vote NO. Instead of two more years of 6.6% and 3.3%, we will get five years of 9%. and then two years of the lower rate which we are approaching now. "

to confused wrote on Oct 3, 2008 8:17 AM:

" all overrides are for 7 years, by law. During the 6th and 7th years of the override, there is a "step down" process where it goes from 10% to 6.6, then 3.3 and finally to zero. The new 9% override will replace the old 10% override in year 6 of the current override. This would not be a "new" tax, but the sustainment (at a lesser level) of the current levy in place. Please visit www.svcec.org for more details. Vote yes! "

No New Taxes wrote on Oct 3, 2008 5:48 AM:

" I'm fed up with all these new taxes. Congress is passing a massive bailout which will cost us dearly. The city of SV wants the SW GAS franchis fee to increase from 2% to 5%, which surely SW Gas will pass onto us. Then there's the SSVEC electric rates. And finally the schools want more money. I've had it. No New TAXES. No bond override. No SW GAS Franchise agreement and NO INCUMBANTS in the election. Out with these dirtballs. I'm Mad and I'm not gonna take it anymore "

Confused wrote on Oct 2, 2008 3:14 PM:

" Wenc and Murray are obviously clueless about State Budget laws. This is not the Soviet Union, and everyone knows 5 year plans NEVER work. If there is anybody out there that knows how much things (fuel, electricity, staff) will cost in May 2010, you are way smarter than the rest of us and should be on the Board. My issue is the original override had a fixed cost with a start and an end. The new override goes out 7 more years. If things weren't solved in 4, how does another 7 years help? "

US census report wrote on Oct 2, 2008 1:14 PM:

" Arizona spends the least on education- $6100 per student. Nat av-$8400, High-15300
Arizona is the 3rd highest recipient of federal impact aid to education
Arizona has the 2nd lowest paid teachers in the nation
Arizona is in the top 25% of states in home value
Arizona is in the lowest 25% of states in property taxes
YOU ARE GETTING A BARGAIN for your actual education cost to $ spent by the individual home owner and stats show college attendance rates are linked to $'s spent per student, stop balking, anti up, be world class, vote YES! "

Mark C. wrote on Oct 2, 2008 12:16 PM:

" I don't see what's so unreasonable about replacing the old 10% override with a 9% override. There are few things more important to the future of our great nation than the education of our children, spending per student in Arizona is among the lowest in the nation (we even spend less than the folks in Mississippi) and yet our schools are still about average. That alone should be enough to prove that our money isn't being wasted. Do the right thing, support our children, support our schools and support the override. "

proud taxpayer wrote on Oct 2, 2008 11:01 AM:

" There is so much emotion flying around in here. We need to put all that aside and remember to be thankful that we are paying taxes. That means we own our homes. Let's give that opportunity to the future generations. Remember that someone paid taxes for your education, now it is time to give back. Vote YES on the override and be a proud citizen. "

To Valerie Scott wrote on Oct 2, 2008 7:37 AM:

" And I, as a retiree, receive $18.14/hour - before taxes. I agree that teachers should make more, but this override is not about raising teacher salary. These are supposed to be my "golden years," but it's more like bronze. I'm simply not willing to sacrifice down to base metal to fund what I perceive to be a dishonest school district. "

Children are our future- NO on the override wrote on Oct 2, 2008 7:16 AM:

" Maybe the administrators, and office workers need a pay cut and we Don't need an override. Keep in your budget like other schools have and new computers for principals and staff was a item the school didn't need. The last override was suppose to go for the students and it did not. "

To Valerie Scott wrote on Oct 2, 2008 6:38 AM:

" Your getting paid what your worth. "

the law wrote on Oct 1, 2008 10:23 PM:

" You say the district followed the law, how do you know? There was no 2009/10 budget presented to the public. Even Agenbroad said: There’s no way we could adopt next year’s budget. He also says they have a proposed budget, but they do not! At best they have an estimate. Read the statutes, you will see the district just did what it wanted because they think they can. "

Yes they have... wrote on Oct 1, 2008 9:42 PM:

" The teachers have certainly taken a hit because of the ARS. Paychecks have been actually lower...not higher each year. However, the override won't fix that. It's not for pay increases or COLA or anything like that.... It's for keeping the teachers we have. "

Only the beginning wrote on Oct 1, 2008 8:44 PM:

" If the override passes, the resultant tax increase is ONLY THE BEGINNING. Check out recent performance of the AZ State Retirement Fund. Performance is way below actuarial assumptions. Translation....Tax increases by the city of SV and AZ to shovel more money into the fund to make up for the unfunded pension plan benefits. You don't really think the employees are going to take a hit here do you. They never have in the past. "

School Board wrote on Oct 1, 2008 8:30 PM:

" Its no wonder the general public does not run for school board. Look who is on the board. To the person.....all were endorsed by the union. An outsider does not have a chance at election. Even if they did get on, they would likely be a single lone voice in the wilderness. Go figure. The union created this mess. Now they will have to deal with it. "

to the judges wrote on Oct 1, 2008 8:27 PM:

" I don't suspect it will make it to trial because it is a frivolous lawsuit (which eats up taxpayer dollars). Wenc and crew tried to sue the district last time over a similar technicality, and it was thrown out; it will be thrown out again. And it will be thrown out because the district followed the law in bringing this forward. It has nothing to do with the judges. And don't cry bias because a BS lawsuit gets thrown out. "

Valerie Scott wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:45 PM:

" A teacher taught me that one can disagree without being disagreeable. I want to see comments remain respectful and factual even if you disagree. Respectful respose to those with whom I disagree: I recognize how difficult it must be to support education through additional taxes if you have a fixed income and the cost of living continues to rise everywhere you turn.
A factual comment about professional salaries, even though teacher pay will not be effected by the override:
All things considered, my computer engineer husband makes $50.41 per hour and I, a teacher, make $26.79 per hour. "

the judges wrote on Oct 1, 2008 2:00 PM:

" I wonder if plaintiffs and the public can get a fair ruling given so many judges in the county have ties to the school system. Judge Hoggatt's wife works for SVPS; Judge Conlogue has at least one kid in the system; Judge Irwin may have kids in it too.That only leaves Desens who heard the case in 2004 and ruled for the district. Littrell is the juvi judge and the other new one is a pro-tem. "

To Not Really wrote on Oct 1, 2008 10:25 AM:

" I would expect the workforce to get paid, bills don't pay themselves. It would be nice to have an American English speaking workforce at places other then McDonalds. Children learn from their parents and the community about the selfless service of volunteering. Volunteering means caring about something greater then yourself and doing something about it. The voting record on the override will be a reflection of our community and it's values. "

to sure wrote on Oct 1, 2008 9:47 AM:

" Yet taxes are lower, and remain among the lowest in the country. The amount requested to maintain the 56 positions is a bargain! Of course, there are those who don't want to pay taxes for anything, ever. I can't care about those people; there's no changing their minds or convincing them that anything has value and is worth paying for. I am appealing to reasonable citizens who recognize the value of education - who don't need to be convinced of the importance of art, music, PE, small class sizes, etc. We are out there. "

Not Really wrote on Oct 1, 2008 5:48 AM:

" Even if someone "outside of the loop" ran for school board, and managed to get elected, their hands would be tied by the good old boys' network. Then they'd be chastised for not doing anything any differently. Why bother? And anyone who thinks the children will take care of you in your old age better have a large wallet. These kids don't do anything without getting paid! Yes, teacher salaries are low, but this override won't be going to improve teacher salaries. This override lowers the tax amount, but extends the time so it's a wash. I'm voting NO! "

Sure Taxes Went Down wrote on Oct 1, 2008 5:24 AM:

" Don't confuse the lower tax bills just recieved with an actual reduction in taxes paid for the schools. Sure the bills are less than last year but then last year's bills were artifically high due to the "Tax Error". So what may seem to be a reduction in taxes merely means the District did not make another tax error. For most, taxes went up over what should have been paid last year without the error. Assessed values went up again, taxes paid for the override went up. Saying taxes went down over last year is misleading. "

Hey Arnold wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:20 PM:

" Your credentials MAY be impressive, but your failure to mention which academies and "top level law school" leaves me suspicious. Besides, I asked for proof (i.e., a source) for your fraudulent SAT/IQ claim, which you merely repeated. A law degree and "outstanding" college teaching experience (also unproven) have little to do with Public Education. You say you don't hate teachers but repeat your previous nonsense while adding that "k 12 has been taken over by people who are destroting our young"? Those claims are indeed hateful. You have done absolutly NOTHING to defend your statements. "

informed parent wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:40 PM:

" There were positions open for the school board elections THIS ELECTION YEAR and yet nobody bothered to submit their names or take the steps to run. Maybe if people took time to actually get involved,serve the community and get active instead of standing on the sidelines, they'd understand more of what's really going on in SV. And if you're wondering about me - YES - I'm actively serving on many civic/community boards for our city and our kids. "

Robert Lynch wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:34 PM:

" WELL SAID PAUL ARNOLD! "Teacher" mantra wearing thin. Each year, for 50 years, SAT scores are falling "teacher" salaries shoot upwards.
So bad SAT scores were "reworked" by adding extra 100 points on the mix; and, still scores drop. US, who led the world's scores for decades, now has scores in the trash bin.
Don't worry, as we are told our young have extremely high "esteem. Whatever that may mean while our "high esteem" students can't make change for a dollar bill without the aid of a calculator!
AWAKE AMERICA! HELP, THE ENEMY IS WITHIN THE GATES! "

Paul Arnold wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:09 PM:

" HATE TEACHERS?
Of course not. I simply related statistics that "teachers," as a group, have the lowest IQ/SAT of any professional group.
I have undergraduate degree from one of the U.S.Military Academies, near the top of my class; and, a Juris Doctor, near the top of my class, from a top level law school (Chief Justice Earl Warren was our commencement speaker).
I would never be allowed to teach K-12 (no bs "education" study garbage) but I have been an outstanding college teacher.
K-12 has been taken over by people who destroy our young.
VOTE NO ON OVERRIDE. "

I support all children.... wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:29 PM:

" Even though it's cliche to say it, it's true... THE CHILDREN ARE OUR FUTURE! They're the ones who'll be taking care of us in our old age. I, for one, want to give them the best of everything and the best opportunities and education I can. I am voting YES!!!!! "

Overpaid teachers wrote on Sep 30, 2008 4:49 PM:

" That's funny, where else can you earn a bachelor degree (minimum), pay to get certification (over and over), serve an internship, and still start below the poverty line? The teachers have a long-standing union, so why is the pay so crappy? Because the teachers care about the kids they teach, that is who they fight for. Teachers work many hours outside the classroom grading papers, sponsoring clubs, taking classes to keep their certification (which they pay for), the list goes on. Teaching is an honorable profession. Bashing teachers shows some serious character flaws. "

To YES wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:46 PM:

" So,,,just who are these guys,,Wenc and Murray. I have not had the pleasure. But, if they are opposed to the override, they would get my vote. Maybe they ought to run for school board. Do you think they have a chance of getting elected? Meanwhile, I will be voting NO on the override. "

To Voter cont. wrote on Sep 30, 2008 1:41 PM:

" No one's suggesting that you get something for nothing. But continuing the override AT A REDUCED RATE means that you will pay less than you are currently paying as a percentage. And given that most peoples' TAXES HAVE DECREASED this year over last, you will pay less IN REAL TERMS. The 37 cents per day figure is wrong - it's LESS than that. That's based on 200K assessed value. The average household assessed value is 174K. Is it worth it? We'll find out November 5th. I'm guessing it'll pass. And I'm voting yes! "

To Voter wrote on Sep 30, 2008 1:36 PM:

" I get it, AND it will lower the rate from 10% to 9%. Voting no means that 56 postions will have to be cut, the day may have to be shortened (and given recent abduction attempts, that is not such a good thing). Of course, paying no tax brings revenue to zero. But as Americans we pay taxes to fund programs such as public education. More isn't always better, true - but you can't seriously argue that the schools here would do better by firing 56 teachers, librarians, counselors, etc. "

PUBLIC school system wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:33 PM:

" The fact is this...It is a PUBLIC School System. If you hate paying for it, then move to a town without public schools. For that matter, if you hate paying for road maintainance...move to a town where there are no paved or maintained roads. Didn't all you haters go to public schools back in the old days? Education is the key to our future. If the education systems, a.k.a. PUBLIC schools, were better years ago, maybe the people in charge now would be smarter. "

NO wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:01 AM:

" All the comments posted for the override in the Herald articles are printed by a small group of people. Likely the same teachers and board members. They are attempting to inflate their numbers with multiple postings using the same rhetoric. The people of Sierra Vista are smarter than that. We aren't going to fall for it. Do not allow a vocal minority to decide for you. Make up your own minds, and vote NO!!! "

Voter wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:36 AM:

" The people saying to vote yes, using the argument that the override will lower the rate to 9% instead of 10% haven't a clue. No override = 6.6% next year, 3.3% the year after, and ZERO after that. Get it? "

tax payer wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:53 AM:

" I would like for the SVHerald to publish the numbers for the school district, I want to know exactly why they need more money, not this "it's for the children" excuse. And, if I remember correctly, everyone got a pay raise immediately after the last override passed, of course, they claimed the override didn't have anything to do with it. "

Paul Arnold wrote on Sep 30, 2008 6:02 AM:

" The lack of understanding of the function and responsibilities of government entities by the mass of comment writers is appalling. Behind all the documents of our founding is the understanding that ALL government is inherently EVIL. Regardless of what men say or claim to believe they enter government to obtain power over their fellow citizens, because men are evil. It is only by Grace that we are freed.
How do men get elected? By stealing earnings from those who work and giving it to those who don't
If you understand this basic you are free! "

Yes wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:54 PM:

" All of the comments in favor of Wenc and Murray were posted by a small group of people, most likely including Wenc and Murray themselves. They are attempting to inflate their numbers with multiple postings using the same rhetoric. The people of Sierra Vista are smarter than that. We aren't going to fall for it. Do not allow a vocal minority to decide for you. Make up your own minds, and vote yes!!! "

Hey Arnold wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:50 PM:

" Paul Arnold, I am disgusted by your unwarranted hatred for teachers and wonder what hapened to you to make you so irrational and out of control. You claim teachers have the lowest IQ and SAT scores of any professional group? Prove it! You have no right to make such claims. I chose education in order to make a difference in my community. I am disgusted by your statements. "Education is merely a Methodology"? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Prove that you do or stick to the issue at hand. Stop Targeting teachers. "

sue back wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:26 PM:

" If Wenc and Murray lose this lawsuit why doesn't the school district sue them for the costs incurred in defending against this lawsuit "

Former Buena Student wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:40 PM:

" Bottom line is, I don't ever want to hear a single person who represents Buena ever claim to be doing anything for the benefit of the students, because I won't believe it. The district will never see one dime of my money if I can help it. And I can guarantee, my child will not be a part of the Sierra Vista Public School system. I value his education too much to waste it in that worthless system. "

Former Buena Student wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:36 PM:

" (cont'd) ...to enroll in the program which would prevent me from graduating. The Buena counselor advised that the program was "not for students like you." He also went so far as to say that if I would no longer be able to attend during regular class hours, I should withdraw from school and get my GED. That's right! A Buena employee advised me to drop out of school. Lovely. In the end I did withdraw from classes at Buena, and I completed my remaining 1.5 credits at CAS within two weeks. "

Former Buena Student wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:30 PM:

" I would love for more voters in the SVPSD to know about my story and other Buena students like me. I attended Buena in the class of 2003. When I reached the second semester of my senior year I was no longer able to attend school during normal hours due to problems at home and asked to be transfered into the alternative program. This would have allowed me to complete my remaining 1.5 credit hours and graduate on time. I was told that because I was an honors student, I would not be allowed... "

Good challenge wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:57 PM:

" The school district is made up of frauds. We are still under an override. That was supposed to reflect the need. But now they are asking for more. To make the last override pass under false pretenses, the school district built a phase out period into the override. But they were dishonest of course. the phase out kicked in and they start crying about all these wonderful extra programs that might get cut. Fire them all and vote NO on the override. "

Not about salary wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:28 AM:

" John P. wrote about teacher pay. This isn't relevant in this discussion since the override is NOT about pay for anyone. No salary increases have come from override funds, nor will they. It is about programs that will have to be eliminated or severely curtailed if the override doesn't pass. I just received my tax notice; my taxes went down over $120 just in the school sector. If the override passes, it will be another reduction since it is for 9% rather than 10%. "

Tax Abuse Only if your name is Wenc wrote on Sep 29, 2008 7:28 AM:

" OK Tony...you're supposed to run an organization that is against tax abuse yet you continue to file frivolous claims and lawsuits against the county and the school district. I wonder how much money you are costing the taxpayer with these lawsuits...talk about tax abuse! Funny how your perspective changes when it supports your own self-interest and the self-interest of all the people who don't want to pay any taxes at all. Why don't you all move somewhere that has no taxes...like Antarctica. Maybe only then will you be content. "

Michael wrote on Sep 29, 2008 6:05 AM:

" Their lawsuit will fail, costing the taxpayers who knows how much. Why won't these little men stop bringing frivolous lawsuits against the district, and let this measure go for an up or down vote? If they (and many of those who write in the comments section) are so confident it will pass, stop wasting taxpayer dollars and let the people decide. Their are enough people with common sense in this community to overcome the hatred on display in many of these comments. And thank God. I and everyone I know will be voting YES! "

Tax Credit wrote on Sep 28, 2008 9:52 PM:

" How about convincing the State to allow the same tax credit contribution for public schools as they did for non-public schools last year = $1000 per family. That way, assuming the average family with kids in SVSD to have two kids, there would be 3400 families that could contribute $1000 each. That would give the district $3,400,000, which is more than the override is scheduled to provide. No loss for the contributors since most of them pay taxes and the contribution would be fully deductible. In addition, no tax would be levied on the rest of the community. "

Tax Abuse Only if your name is Wenc wrote on Sep 28, 2008 9:26 PM:

" OK Mr. Wenc...you're supposed to run an organization that opposes tax abuse, yet you keep filing frivolous complaints and lawsuits against the city, county and the school district. How much are YOU costing the taxpayer? I will vote YES solely because of you and your burden on the taxpayer with your frivolous claims. RIDICULOUS! For those who think the school district is hiding information. All it takes one phone call. I made it when I had doubts...you too can pick up the phone and call the business office. They are very open. "

Concerned in SV wrote on Sep 28, 2008 6:25 PM:

" Take your pick. Help pay to educate our future citizens now or pay their welfare and incarceration bills later. Children may not be 100% of the population but they are 100% of our future. Vote YES on the override! "

Cochise County Concerned Citizen wrote on Sep 28, 2008 3:58 PM:

" Miserly, miserly, miserly. I keep hearing:"Sierra Vista School District, live within your budget, live within your means". Everything has gone up, everything. It is shameful how some people do not value education and what it costs to educate students. It comes down to pay now or pay later. If we don't educate the population we will continue the downward trend as a society. To the complainers and whiners: invest in our community and in society. Somebody did for you. "

More Taxes wrote on Sep 28, 2008 1:19 PM:

" If you think the SVPS tax fiasco is bankrupt, check out the City of Sierra Vista's franchise agreement with SW Gas, which increases the taxes from 2% to 5%. The school board has been educating the city of SV goons about how to bump the public for more money. Vote NO on the OVERRIDE and on the SW Gas franchise agreement. "

Fixed Income wrote on Sep 28, 2008 11:45 AM:

" Buena Parent, I live on a fixed income and believe me I know that prices have gone up. Part of my income is from the remnants of an IRA that is invested in "safe" US Government Treasury instruments. Because of the attempt by the Government to "save our economy," in part by decreasing interest rates, the return on those instruments has decreased by almost 70%. Meanwhile, the district revenue has increased over that of last year. Something wrong here. SVSD needs to live within its equalization budget which should be frozen until the economy improves on its own. "

The School District wrote on Sep 28, 2008 6:33 AM:

" should've saved the money they spent sending out those booklets attempting to explain the "need" for this override. Everyone I know is so disgusted with the school district, that booklet hit the trash within 5 or 6 minutes of getting it from the mailbox! NONE of us are voting for the override. I've tightened my belt - no more dinners out, no vacation this year, no concerts, no movies, etc. I'm not willing to tighten any more for an override! Besides, the kids I see these days who have graduated can't even spell! I'm done with throwing my money away! "

john p wrote on Sep 28, 2008 3:53 AM:

" For all who claim teachers are under paid. From the AZ auditor Generals web page. The average teachers pay for 2007 in the Sierra Vista district is 41,600 dollars.Plus On average each teacher earned an additional $5,630 in salary from Prop 301 tax funds.So lets say 47,000 bucks.yet we have teachers saying they are under paid. 30K a year. Here is what really upsets teachers how many days do they work to earn that money? They are off so much i belive they work about half a year so they really make over 83k. "

Voter wrote on Sep 28, 2008 3:04 AM:

" Only a few times in life is poetic justice sweetely served as such it will be when the sitting board members, and their supporters, experience the override defeat and thus have to deal with the problem they themselves brought to our kids. "

Mandy wrote on Sep 28, 2008 2:46 AM:

" It's about time someone forced SV school's to follow the rules. Lord knows they use the rules to THEIR benefit when they were railroading my behaviorally challenged son right out of them! Taxpayers are parent's also, we already DO foot the bill... then we're bombarded with fundraising, etc. all year long by the schools. So, why is it there still isn't any soap in the restroom while the principal keeps getting fatter, the teacher's are illiterate & SpEd kids get tossed in a corner w/ their face to the wall instead of the HELP they need (budget funded)? "

To Editor wrote on Sep 28, 2008 2:35 AM:

" Your use of the term VITRIOL to describe DONALDS comments is a bit over the top. I doubt many would find bitterness and hatred in DONALDS comments, yet you label them as such. Your comments lead one to conclude a bias on your part about issues discussed on this board. But then, its your paper. "

Buena Parent wrote on Sep 28, 2008 12:37 AM:

" Of Course we need the override for our schools. It is basic economics, everything has increased in price and more money is needed just to maintain the schools. Like I have said in the past, volunteer. You will find out what really goes on in the schools, and appreciate the hard work most teacher put into their jobs and how much of their own money goes back to their students. I feel it is so little to ask for. It is'nt like they are asking for $700 billion. "

Injunction GRANTED wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:39 PM:

" I think Agenbroad affirms the crux of the case as he states “There’s no way we could adopt next year’s budget.” EXACTLY. Since the school can't adopt a budget, then neither can voters. This should be a very simple case for the judge. "

KG wrote on Sep 27, 2008 9:13 PM:

" I know I should have seen this coming, but I still can't help but be shocked that the school board would DARE try to pass an override after last year's fiasco. On top of that, it's almost comical that they are trying to do it in such a cloak and dagger manner. A logical person would think that in order to gain taxpayer (read "voter") trust and support for the override, the district would be providing as much information as possible and encourage community input. The fact that they are not says to me that something is very wrong here. "

PC wrote on Sep 27, 2008 9:02 PM:

" Okay, Editor. Why did the page designer/copy editor use the sexist term? Don't you think Wenc and Murray deserve an apology?
EDITOR'S NOTE: Men is not a sexist term, no apology necessary. "

Taxed Out wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:36 PM:

" Thanks to Wenc and Murray. Where can I contribute to the effort? Hope it will be successful and perhaps send a message to the District that they need to live within their means as I am required to do. For Hal Thomas - when people don't have a valid response to an argument, they seem to always attack the other side. In this case even calling the suit a "cheap shot." Come on Hal; you know you haven't even begun to do your job. "

donald s wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:12 PM:

" TO KATIE EVANS Your head line for this story was sexist.Why men? Are they evil? Hate kids!!! As you are working for a PC liberal newspaper using headlines that single out someone sex is not PC nor is it right .Citizens would have been proper. I doubt if a women had filed the law suit you would have mentioned the sex of the person.
EDITOR'S NOTE: Reporters do not write the headlines for the stories. So your vitriol should be directed to the page designer/copy editor who does write headlines and designs the pages. "

Teacher wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:59 PM:

" Mr. Arnold,
I'm curious what you consider to be underpaid? This is irrelevant to the argument here because the override is not to increase salaries, but do you consider a person with a four year degree who teaches all day, tutors after shcool, coaches two sports, teaches band, and serves on several committess and barely makes $30,000 to be overpaid? That's what teachers make in SV. I couldn't even afford to buy a house in SV. "

interesting... wrote on Sep 27, 2008 6:27 PM:

" Is "irregardless" a word? I think not. Agenbroad should not try to play lawyer. The suit is timely filed. Maybe the real question to be asked is: why did the Board call for the election on the second to the last day to call one even if it had been called legitimately? As for asking Bond attorneys, well they are self-interested and this is an override, not bond request--big difference. "

More about wrote on Sep 27, 2008 6:13 PM:

" The current override, which is in its fifth year, is a 10 percent override that will decrease to 6.6 percent next year as it enters its sixth year and 3.3 percent in its seventh year. And if it fails the rate will decrease to ZERO! You want your kids in music or art, pay for it yourself. "

Why wrote on Sep 27, 2008 5:44 PM:

" Taking "cheap shots", Hal Thomas? Well, whatever they're doing it ain't cheap and it's coming from their pockets, not the taxpayers. With declining enrollment, show us why the District cannot manage without a bail-out. No one has tried to economize. There are many ways to cut expenses (just read the Arizona Daily Star articles covering how TUSD has been reducing their budget due to declining enrollment. This District lives with the arrogant expectation that once an override is passed, it will always be available. Get over it! Cut expenses across the entire budget. "

Enough wrote on Sep 27, 2008 5:31 PM:

" There is already an override in place. The school district got what it wanted. Now it is saying that was not enough. Of course. Everybody is always after more of our money. The kids will get the exact same education without the override. I have 3 kids in school and guess what? They haven't benefitted from the last override at all. Throwing money at problems can sometime solve the problem, but as often as not it just means you spend more money for the same thing. "

Parent wrote on Sep 27, 2008 5:24 PM:

" I say let the administrators give up their raises for the benefit of our children. I'm sick and tired of politicians and that's what the school officials are that can't seem to balance any budget and stick it to the tax payers. I'm all for our childrens education but not at the expense of depleteing each houshold to pick up the slack for the deficiencies of our so called leaders. I am a widowed Mother of two and I will not burden my fellow man for what life has dealt me. Taxes, taxes and we are still hurting. Pitiful "

I am concerned wrote on Sep 27, 2008 4:06 PM:

" It should jump out at us... The highest ranking person in SV District uses the (not a) word "irregardless". This is what 128K of our tax dollars is paying for. Absolutely unacceptable. "

billy g wrote on Sep 27, 2008 4:01 PM:

" "Agenbroad alleges that in the court documents, Wenc and Murray’s attorney was “very selective” in the lines of the referenced laws he used — A.R.S. 15-481 and A.R.S. 15-905 — and took them “out of context.” Is he a lawyer now giving legal opinions? As for hal thomas he ran on A platform of camping up in PHX until the state came up with more money.He never did. So he is a proven lair. Hopefully he will tell us again how he beats paying his own taxes. NO OVERRIDE "

KT wrote on Sep 27, 2008 2:09 PM:

" More money does not mean "diverse education." It simply means more money. What they might do with it is anyone's guess. We do know that they still can't prepare students to pass the AIMS with the money they have spent to date. Perhaps that should be the condition - they get more tax dollars for other programs as soon as they prove they can teach the basics with what they have. "

To the NAYSAYERS... wrote on Sep 27, 2008 12:15 PM:

" You poor, misinformed people. Those that benefit from the override aren't the school board (who, by the way, serve without compensation)...it's the students....and us. We will ALL pay the price because these students are the future of this country. Selfish, selfish, selfish are those who don't support our future. I thought we were out of the "me" generation. "

Jacqueline OConnor wrote on Sep 27, 2008 12:13 PM:

" To SV Teacher: You're part of the problem; you're trying to preserve an outdated model. K-12 education has become the family baby-sitter, nurse, bus driver and counselor. Charles Murray writes "... we are unrealistic about students at every level of academic ability--asking too much from those at the bottom, asking the wrong things from those in the middle, and asking too little from those at the top." While half the children are below average, the current educational system shortchanges their ability to profit from the assets they do possess." Money won't compensate for inate smarts or home environment. "

Nit-Picker wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:58 AM:

" I agree with Hal Thomas that people with concerns and the ability to contribute to a more functional school board, should have run for the open school board positions. I don't agree that it means they haven't the right--indeed I applaud their effort--to spend their own (not the taxpayers') money to challenge the District. These men apparently know of what they speak from their 2004 experience. Now, I'd like to know: how much did the three bond attorney's cost the taxpayer in this latest override effort? And an aside to Agenbroad "irregardless"? "

2008 Budget wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:38 AM:

" Maybe the Herald could publish the 2008 budget, and then the district could explain where the cuts or increased costs are they need to cover. No transparency, no over ride. "

Paul Arnold wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:34 AM:

" School overrides are a national racket. School boards are nothing but puppets of teachers associations. The mantra for the fiscal irresponsibility is "its for the children." It is NEVER for the children it is always for administrator and already overpaid teachers. Teachers have the lowest IQ and SAT scores of any professional group. They used to be masters of the academics they taught, no longer. They now study not a discipline but "Education" which is merely methodology!
The School Board is never an independent body and only represents teachers and administrators.
VOTE NO ON THE OVERRIDE! "

Independent wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:16 AM:

" Why is it any time there is a problem with the budget, Michelle Quiroz is involved. Quiroz, of fumble-finger fame, where her clerical error resulted in higher local taxes a couple of years ago, should have been replaced but the former Superintendent chose to retire instead. Curious. "

Iconoclast wrote on Sep 27, 2008 10:42 AM:

" To Concerned Parent: deal with the issues, stop blaming the "messenger". What do you as a parent do? Drive your kids to school, feed 'em breakfast? The schools could economize BUT THE PARENTS WHO WON'T ALLOW CHANGE BECAUSE IT INTERFERES WITH THEIR FREE BABY SITTER. You had 'em, you transport and feed 'em. I'll pay for the teaching. Sounds like a bargain for you. Can't deal? Don't have 'em. "

Go Tony wrote on Sep 27, 2008 9:34 AM:

" NO TO THE OVERRIDE! I support you 100% Mr. Wenc and Mr. Murry. I don't care what it takes to stop this giant bully we call the school system. I keep telling you people over and over, let the parents foot the bill for the extra funds you need. Stop pounding the taxpayers over and over and over. We already pay you enough money. Lets stop this constant drain on the taxpayer. "

NO TO THE OVERRIDE wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:50 AM:

" I'm voting NO to an override - no matter what. The idiots that are the school board will not get another penny out of me unless it's forced. In these shaky economic times, the school district can learn to live within their shrinking means - just as I have to. If the economy keeps tanking I need the money more than they do, and I really do not care what they have to cut. I have had it up to my eyeballs with their nonsensical demands! "

Hereford wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:47 AM:

" I'm glad the injunction was filed- if the district isn't going to follow the rules, then thank goodness someone is looking out for us by attempting to keep them in check. This school district has done nothing but mismanage money for years and I'm tired of everyone paying for their mistakes including its students and teachers. "

Concerned Parent wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:07 AM:

" I am all for the override. It seems every time that any override for the school comes along Mr. Wence is always right there to voice his negative opinion and do what ever he can to avoid paying more taxes on his rental property. Yes our pocket books are going to hurt a little more. We might have to budget a little more. The true picture Mr. Wence is worried about losing a dime. "

Former SV Teacher wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:42 AM:

" When are SV residents going to realize the only ones being hurt by a no vote are students? Services for students are going to be cut and students will be denied the diverse education they deserve; one that will adequatley prepare them to compete for college scholarships and against their counterparts from all over the world. Effective curriculums meet the needs of everyone. Cutting programs will negate the district's attempt at an effective curriculum. I currently teach in a district proposing a $370 bond issue which is garnering support from the community because they value students. "

Voter wrote on Sep 27, 2008 6:40 AM:

" Gald to see someone trying to get the facts out, about another override "