Today's Weather


Click for Sierra Vista, Arizona Forecast


Car dealership off-limits to active service members

By Bill Hess
Herald/Review
Published/Last Modified on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 04:15:50 pm MST

FORT HUACHUCA — A car dealership with branches in Sierra Vista, Huachuca City and Tucson has been placed off-limits to thousands of active-duty service members assigned to this Southern Arizona Army post.

Ideal Automotive Group, including the company's business in Tucson known as Wildcat Mitsubishi, was informed in a May 20 letter by the fort's leadership that it is being placed off-limits.

Fort Huachuca spokeswoman Tanja Linton said, “Today (Wednesday) we got notification that Ideal Automotive Group received the letter from the garrison commander (Col. Melissa Sturgeon) notifying them they had been placed off-limits to military service members.”

Making the e-mail rounds off post Wednesday was a May 20 memorandum with the subject “Off-Limits Order,” signed by Maj. Gen. John Custer, commander of Fort Huachuca and the Army Intelligence Center, in which he said the three Ideal facilities could not be used by active-duty military personnel.


The Ideal Automotive Group facility in Sierra Vista. (Mark Levy-Herald/Review)


Custer’s order was to be relayed to every active-duty soldier, sailor, airman and Marine who are attached to Fort Huachuca.

“Leaders will ensure all their subordinates understand this order, and new personnel will be issued this order as part of their in-processing,” the general’s memo states.

Beau Johnston, Ideal’s general manager, said the company’s problems come about for trying to put people in cars who may not have the best credit.

Although he didn’t immediately know how much of the company’s business is from the military, Johnston said “we try to help soldiers,” some of whom come to Ideal as a last resort in trying to buy a vehicle.

The problem is sometimes customers, and that includes nonmilitary, have less than good credit, and when it is discovered, “they already have been put in a car,” he said.

That then means either a person cannot have the vehicle under a contract that was initially written or must come up with additional money for a down payment, Johnston said.

But all customers are told if they have signed a contract for a certain interest rate and it comes back from a financial company, like a bank, at a higher rate, they can walk away from the contract, he said.

What the company is now doing is making sure all the paperwork is completed before putting a person in a car so there are no surprises, Johnston said.

And, to ensure everyone understands what is happening, voice and video recordings of transactions are being done, he added.

Custer said he placed the business off-limits under an Army regulation because, “sufficient cause indicates these establishments are adversely affecting the health, safety, morals, welfare, morale and discipline of the Fort Huachuca Armed Forces personnel.” He also noted active-duty military personnel who violate his order can be subject to “negative administrative or personnel actions” for violating a lawful order.

In response to a number of written questions submitted by the Herald/Review, the fort’s judge advocate office said the decision was part of a process involving the local Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board.

The board received information from a number of sources regarding consumer practices of Ideal Automotive Group, which led the business to be informed of the board’s findings and the post’s intent to place the business off-limits.

Before that happened, Ideal Automotive Group representatives appeared before the board in March.

Johnston said when it comes to the off-limits designation, Ideal officials tried to explain their business practices to fort officials. They are disappointed that active-duty military personnel can’t currently trade with them.

Johnston added Ideal wasn’t provided with the names of those individuals who complained and what the issues were so he and others at the company could have looked at records to present a fuller case from their side to the disciplinary board.

He expressed hope that in the future the off-limits restriction will be lifted.

After hearing the business’s side and after considering all evidence, the “board voted to have Ideal Automotive Group placed off-limits,” the response to the Herald/Review’s questions stated.

The action only applies to active-duty military service members, who “are prohibited from entering establishments or areas declared off-limits,” the response said, adding that family members are not part of the restriction, but that service members “are encouraged to share this information (with) their family members.”

Although there is no specific time as to how long a business can be placed off-limits, it remains so until the board decides, with concurrence of the post’s leadership, to lift the restriction.

In his memo, Custer stated: “This order will be reviewed every 90 days and remains in effect indefinitely until officially rescinded by this headquarters.”

In response to a Herald/Review question, the judge advocate office noted, “A person whose establishment has been declared off-limits may petition the president of the board to remove the off-limits restriction. The petition must be in writing and include a detailed report of action taken to eliminate the condition or situation that caused imposition of the restriction.”

The board president can order an investigation to determine if corrective action has been taken and then recommend removal or continuation of the off-limits restriction.

It has been a long process involving the Ideal decision, according to responses to Herald/Review questions.

“The business practices of Ideal Automotive Group were reviewed by AFDCB (Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board) in 2004, but the board determined that no action was necessary at that time,” the response stated.

The board did not meet from 2004 until January 2008 and the board’s decision was based on “Ideal’s situation from January 2008 until April 2008.”

The board’s investigation “determined that there were numerous soldier complaints filed with Army Community Service and the Better Business Bureau,” according to the response, without providing the exact number or types of complaints.

The Better Business Bureau was not immediately available for comment.

According to a BBB Web site, Ideal Automotive Group’s facility in Sierra Vista had 14 complaints filed in the past three years.

The complaints covered contract, billing or collection, sales practices, repair, service, customer and product issues.

The majority of the complaints were addressed by the company, bbb.org said, with some resolution accepted by customers.

Only one, concerning a product issue, is currently unresolved, because the company has failed to resolve it through the BBB voluntary and self-regulatory process.

Johnston noted Ideal is not a member of the BBB but has entered into arbitration through the organization, paying $300 for each case.

The last known time the fort took this level of action was in the early 1980s, when a different Sierra Vista car dealership was placed off-limits by the post’s leadership.

Another Tucson business is currently off-limits to fort military personnel. Club Z, also known as Club Envy, was restricted to active-duty military following an altercation between a post soldier and civilian, which ended up with the civilian following a vehicle that carried soldiers in it, firing at it, killing one Iraq-bound soldier and injuring another. According to Tucson police reports, the shooter has yet to be apprehended.

Herald/Review senior reporter Bill Hess can be reached at 515-4615 or by e-mail at bill.hess@svherald.com.



Use the form below to post a brief comment to this story, or respond to other readers. Please use the word count tool to assist you in keeping your remarks to 100 words or fewer.

Comments appear once they are approved. Your thoughtful contribution to the online discussion is appreciated.

(optional)
Current Word Count:
   





    SVH EDITOR wrote on Jun 13, 2008 7:45 AM:

    " EDITOR'S NOTE: It's our determination that all has been said regarding this story. Therefore comments to it are now closed. "

    To Nut wrote on Jun 13, 2008 3:35 AM:

    " The usage of caps or not, is good computer etikett, much like using the right fork and a napkin. Good manners do get one much further in life then throwing a rather childish computer tantrum. "

    SV Booster wrote on Jun 12, 2008 4:05 PM:

    " Needed to rent a van to take some people to Tucson and back. I had heard a lot of bad stuff about Ideal, but figured I would give them the benefit of the doubt. They rented vehicles and beyond the rental fees, they stated first 200 miles were free. However, when I got there to pick up the vehicle and got the paperwork, checked to odometer and did a vehicle walk around before signing. Noted they jacked the mileage on the paperwork up by 250 miles. Have never gone back and won't "

    Hereford wrote on Jun 12, 2008 2:00 PM:

    " This is just fabulous and I think the truth about what a crooked dealership Ideal really is, is finally getting out, not just to the military but to all of Cochise County. I hope this runs them out of business and the MG probably will end up renewing the ban in 90 days, that is if they are still in business. Corrupt businesses like Ideal do not belong in Cochise County! "

    KC wrote on Jun 12, 2008 11:41 AM:

    " TL - those "deadbeats in uniform" provided you with the freedom to make that insensitive, ignorant and demeaning comment!!! You should thank them for that. You sound like a very bitter, miserable, and spiritually bankrupt person. I pity you and everyone around you. "

    CAPS wrote on Jun 12, 2008 11:33 AM:

    " THIS IS BEING SAID IN A WISPER. IF CAPS BOTHER YOU GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!. THIS IS ALL BEING SAID IN A WISPER AS I SAID. WHO STARTED THIS "CAPS ARE YELLING". IS IT A LAW THAT'S WRITTEN IN STONE. IF YOU ARE SO INSECURE ABOUT BEING YELLED AT IN CAPS JUST THINK IF THEY WERE "BOLD CAPS". HOLY COW, I'M SURE THAT YOU WOULD NEED SOME SERIOUS COUNCILING TO GET YOUR LIFE BACK TO SOMEWHAT NORMAL. I HAVE BOUGHT FROM IDEAL. JUST DON'T KNOW WHO'LL GET ME NEXT TIME IN MORE THAN ONEWAY. HAVE A NICE DAY =) "

    about time wrote on Jun 12, 2008 11:09 AM:

    " Due process? No, it's about time Fort Huachuca leadership took this action! Having worked on post for years, I know for a fact that barring Ideal has been considered many times and each time Ideal has promised to do better. Actions speak louder than words. Disregard of those promises were the straws that broke the camel's back. How many opportunities for due process is Ideal entitled to? This was absolutely the right thing to do and hopefully it has also resulted in other businesses reconsidering their unethical business practices just to make bigger profits. "

    concerned wrote on Jun 12, 2008 8:42 AM:

    " can't believe one dealership takes all the fall and blame for what they all do. I think further investigation into this should have been done. Why wasn't Ideal allowed to see what claims were made against them so they could rebuttle?? "

    To Nut wrote on Jun 11, 2008 8:26 PM:

    " Keeping your cap locks on doesn't impresss anyone. "

    to Scott wrote on Jun 11, 2008 5:35 PM:

    " Those kids are trained on what to do with those guns. Most of them are what, 18, 19, and young and inexperienced in how shady some deals can be or are still maturing their financial actions. Considering now days most kids that age are still dependent on mom and dad, it isn't unreasonable to expect the Army to take that kind of parental responsibility for these kids. Secondly, given that bad financial decisions affect their eligibility for clearences, it is also good to look out for them so we don't loose good soldiers to predatory companies. "

    cochisechat.com wrote on Jun 11, 2008 3:16 PM:

    " Why would a business not be a member of the BBB? "

    PEANUT wrote on Jun 11, 2008 2:39 PM:

    " TO SCOTT THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE SOLDIERS. ITS HAPPENS TO EVERYDAY DAY PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME. I KNOW FROM EXPERCIENCE IT HAPPENEND TO MY NEIGHBOR.
    IT HAPPENED TO A DOD CILVIAN. WHEN WILL IT STOP. I SAY ITS ABOUT TIME SOMEONE TAKES A STAND AND IF IT TAKES THE SOLDIERS TO TAKE A STAND THEN I'LL BACK 'EM. BEEN THERE SEEN IT. "

    concerned wrote on Jun 11, 2008 9:42 AM:

    " there are things in life you just don't do. Taking advantage of someone in need is one of those things. Personally I hope I can raise my children up to be better people than those who work at ideal and think this is ok. I will also boycott Ideal. I have no desire to get taken advantage of. "

    Danielle wrote on Jun 11, 2008 7:02 AM:

    " That’s funny "BARF" your probably one of the people you are talking about. It is well known that Ideal doesn't care about anyone but themselves and now instead of it just being a warning from people around here it is an order. It’s about time. "Scott" it’s also funny to me that you relate guns and the army to knowing when someone is ripping you off because "it’s the same thing." To me both you and "BARF" are ignorant. How about we stop the madness and be happy that someone finally did something about it. "

    to BARF wrote on Jun 11, 2008 7:01 AM:

    " spoken like a typical Ideal employee....Even though you will give someone with Lousy credit, no work history, and NO ABILITY TO PAYBACK THE LOAN a nice 500 dollar a month car knowing you will be repossessing it in 6 weeks "

    BARF wrote on Jun 10, 2008 8:24 PM:

    " Most of these people complaining can't afford a car, have never bought a new one from Ideal or any other dealer in SV. The low lifes will always complaing about how bad they got it. Lousy credit, no work history, and no abiltiy to repay a loan. "

    Doh wrote on Jun 10, 2008 6:30 PM:

    " Try a bit harder there "Scott" you don't quite have it straight yet. Keep trying though. "

    greed is wrote on Jun 10, 2008 2:54 PM:

    " A killer. When you knowingly make this community far worse off than it already is just to put a few extra bucks in your pocket. Neither myself or anyone else in my family will ever buy a car from Ideal. I have no respect for anyone who works there. You feed off the ignorance of the uninformed. "

    Julie wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:29 AM:

    " 1st hand experience. For the family members and workers of ideal, you should be ashamed! When I run into you in the stores or at a party, I don't see any of you apologizing to me or my family for what you did. You turn your heads in shame. So don’t play the pity party here that you try to look out for our community, because overall it comes down to how much money you can put in your own pocket. "

    Scott wrote on Jun 10, 2008 9:34 AM:

    " SO let me get this straight Soldiers are adults and can be given weapons to fight wars and be used during national emergency as law enforcement as responsible adults But they cannot make good decisions about buying cars. I guess as long as we treat them as kids they will be kids. You sign the papers you are responsible no one forced any of these soldiers into anything What a bunch of babies. "

    KCS wrote on Jun 9, 2008 11:39 AM:

    " I've been a car dealer for over 40 years and have been able to help many soldiers, sailors, flyboys and Marines obtain a car when they have less than admirable credit. I would never sell anyone a car they couldn't afford or charge them exhorbitant interest rates just to make a buck. I've lost many car deals over the years because I don't believe in taking advantage of people who will fall for shoddy salesmanship. The Genersl did the right thing in this case. "

    CB wrote on Jun 9, 2008 11:11 AM:

    " No due process? When I was first stationed at the post in 2003, one of the FIRST things I was told when arriving to post was to stay away from Ideal. "

    Danielle wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:33 AM:

    " They did this to themselves. They knew what they were doing and now they will have to pay for it. It wasn't just soldiers that they were do crappy things too. They tried to send someone I know off with a full vehicle inspection only to find out the brakes were bad on the car. Image what would have happen if it wasn't noticed within the first day it was taken off the lot. "

    just a soldier wrote on Jun 8, 2008 1:57 AM:

    " Any commander that believes he can "add to" but not "take away from" a reg is not worthy of the title "commander". "Adding to" a reg IS "taking away from" it. What Ideal was doing may have been legal, it was definitely unethical. And that's enough to get you placed off limits. As far as the big sign stating it's off limits, that can't be done. However, a list of all off limits establishments is distributed throughout the post, and all Soldiers will be made aware of it. "

    Not Ideal wrote on Jun 7, 2008 8:00 PM:

    " To 'you are out of your mind', your name suits you. The military have strict procedures and do not take such action lightly. Are you upset that you are no longer able to dupe people into shady deals? Or are you worried you might find yourself in the same position yourself once you loose your job from conducting these shady deals? "

    Potential Buyer No More wrote on Jun 7, 2008 8:53 AM:

    " According to the article, the General Manager said the problem is; sometimes customers have less than good credit, and when discovered, "they have already been put in a car." That is one of the most disingenuous remarks I have ever heard and speaks volumes. First, it is shameful that an attempt would be made to shift the blame to the customer. It also tells you what you need to know about their business practices. Instead of excuses, they should be doing all they can to redeem themselves. "

    Google wrote on Jun 7, 2008 7:33 AM:

    " http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r190_24.pdf "

    good riddance wrote on Jun 7, 2008 6:59 AM:

    " for those of you who work at ideal you should feel ashamed. Just because you can legally hide behind your unethical business practices, doesnt mean you should continue to use them. Ever hear of doing the right thing? But fact of the matter is, that you have let greed consume you. You sell a car to someone you kNOW cant afford it, but then say its not my fault. You will answer one way or another for your actions. I wouldnt want to be in yoru shoes come judgment time. "

    Ethics wrote on Jun 7, 2008 1:48 AM:

    " Business owners make choices how they conduct their business and most will walk the fine line between what is right and wrong. "Getting over" on someone has become such a habit these days, that,evidently, for these business owners the guide lines of how to conduct good business became somewhat blurred. The best [aside from being free] advertisement is, afterall, satisfied customers. Word of mouth travels fast and a black mark on a reputation stays around for a long time. Knowing that this can happen to other businesses in town, should make some of them rethink their ethics. "

    cochisechat.com wrote on Jun 7, 2008 1:27 AM:

    " Commanders can add to AR 190-24, not take away from. "

    Amazed wrote on Jun 7, 2008 1:11 AM:

    " This whole issue seems to be causing more uproar than the price of oil, the national debt, the still ongoing wars, the increasing price of food and medicine. It is truly amazing that the local business practices raises more ire and attention than all the other issues that are facing this world. It must be because this is local and there is some sense of empowerment. 90 days from now, GIs will be buying cars from this company again. The rest of the world will still be there, but no better. "

    IDEAL AT WORK wrote on Jun 6, 2008 10:39 PM:

    " IDEAL EMPLOYEES, WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING AGAIN TO MAKE YOUR POINT????!!!! WE ARE NOT HARD OF READING!!!!!!!!!! "

    YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND wrote on Jun 6, 2008 8:53 PM:

    " THIS WAS THE WRONG THING TO DO - THERE WAS NO DUE PROCESS BY THE MILITARY TO ADDRESS THE DETAILS OF THE INCIDENTS THAT CAUSED THE HEARING. BEAU SHOULD BRING A SUIT FOR DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER AND LOSSES FROM THIS HORRENDOUS DECISION. WHAT HAPPENED TO BUYERS BEING RESPONSIBLE AND USING COMMON SENSE? THE MILITARY GOT IT 100% WORNG IN THIS CASE - I WILL ALWAYS USE IDEAL FOR MY VEHICLE PURCHASES. "

    just a soldier wrote on Jun 6, 2008 7:57 PM:

    " Look up AR 190-24 on google and read it. It's the Army regulation governing how and when a commander can place a business off limits and the process that must be followed. Simple reading folks, explains everything very well. "

    still missing the point wrote on Jun 6, 2008 3:57 AM:

    " This has nothing to do with young serivce men and women, trying to establish credit,by buying the car.It is about business deals, in which, under very suspicious circumstances, the terms are being changed. A variable interest rate,with certain stipulations, should be high lighted, pointed out and circled. We all know, how dealers go over the contract, usually fast, with a lot of don't worry about this or that. They know, afterall they are being schooled in it, how to play the game!Just how many of you "bought" the extended warranty or life insurance, while purchasing your car, with full knowledge? "

    anon wrote on Jun 5, 2008 7:31 PM:

    " What this comes down to is a business practice that should be illegal, but apparently isnt. But the fact is that the practice is so repugnant that honest citizens should not want to do business with them. Dont sell a car then change the terms 3 days later. "

    nobody is clueless wrote on Jun 5, 2008 6:29 PM:

    " nobody, you are simply clueless and your arguements are embarrassingly reflective of your ignorance to the entire process. Please research the subject or ask someone on post to explain it to you so you don't continue to ebarrass yourself. "

    Where wrote on Jun 5, 2008 6:06 PM:

    " Wow, "Billy" where are the massage parlors? "

    Kitty wrote on Jun 5, 2008 1:10 PM:

    " I went to school with Beau and Kelly Place. They are both WONDERFUL people. Kelly works there and has tried to give you some insight as to what goes on, but some of you are so angry that you refuse to hear the "other side of the story." That is just plain ignorant. I will purchase my next vehicle from IDEAL as Im sure many others will as well. If you dont like them, dont go there. SIMPLE "

    wake up wrote on Jun 5, 2008 10:51 AM:

    " Sandy, ignore RVgal, she doesn't understand the day a child is born is the most glorious, the day they die is the most sorrowful. And it is TL that stated deadbeat soldiers. TL here is a quote from a "deadbeat" "They tied parachute cord around his thumbs, which were at the back of his head, and hoisted his body off the ground by throwing the cord over the rafters." Fingernails were torn off those deadbeats TL. "

    you dont have to forgive but dont blame us all wrote on Jun 5, 2008 10:15 AM:

    " Sandy, I am truly sorry for your loss, however, condemming all soldiers for the actions of one is unfair. Your anger is just, but blame the person at fault and not their profession. Humans make mistakes, in other circumstances it could have just as easily been you at the wheel, even a brief second lapse in judgement (adjusting the A/C, radio, mirror) could result in a tragic loss. We are quick to judge lest we be in the other person's shoes, then we are humbled. "

    nobody wrote on Jun 5, 2008 8:48 AM:

    " So, let me understand, the Military has to protect their men in uniform, because they lack the maturity to make an informed decission adout purchasing a car and signing thier name to a legal document, and at any time can refuse to agree to the trasaction. So, does this apply also to all other legal documents that they sign? If you go by the militaries position, then why would you put them in combat, or let them marry and have children? The Military is not thier daddies, they are adults and responsible for their actions period not daddy Military "

    Pete W wrote on Jun 5, 2008 6:34 AM:

    " What it comes down to is the safety and well being of the soldiers stationed here at Fort Huachuca. People including soldiers are going to come across shady and underhanded practice where ever they go it's up to all of us to beware.
    To:RVGAL nowhere in her statements has Sandy said anything negative against our soldiers. I believe it to be you with the chip on your shoulder,from the sound of it you carry many......let it go. "

    LIZZY wrote on Jun 4, 2008 10:59 PM:

    " I'M GLAD THE FORT IS TAKING ACTION TO PROTECT OUR YOUNG SOLDIERS HERE AT HOME!;O) "

    Ammon wrote on Jun 4, 2008 8:45 PM:

    " To R.V. gal....
    This isn't a debate on whether or not Sandy hates ALL soldier> i can guarantee that she has respect for them regardless of what car they drive because she gave her daughters hand to one for marriage. I also don't believe i read anything about hre disliking or having a chip on her shoulder towards soldiers. Anyone getting in a vehicle is putting their lives on the line every day and in the hands of everyone else on the street. Being responsible is the key. Everyone makes mistakes,either learn from ur own or others. "

    Billy Hill wrote on Jun 4, 2008 8:10 PM:

    " Where are the signs, I mean how are you Off Limits without the big yellow sign.
    If it's good enough for massge parlors it's good enough for these guys. "

    What wrote on Jun 4, 2008 8:07 PM:

    " The Herald never does an in depth story that may affect their advertisers business practices. Their advertisers are their bread and butter. If they ever have followed up on a business that got bad press, I sure missed that article. "

    poor credit wrote on Jun 4, 2008 5:55 PM:

    " I am one of those people with "poor credit" that everyone is bad mouthing. I was very ill 2 1/2 years ago and after nearly dying, had over $75,000.00 in medical bills AFTER insurance. All of that has gone to bill collectors because no one wants to work with me and thinks I have all this money to pay them first. I bought a car (used) while in Phoenix last year and am so glad I did. I love my car and grateful to have it. Don't shame me for poor credit. "

    Lionel wrote on Jun 4, 2008 1:32 PM:

    " I don't understand why most folks in this forum are so mystified that Ideal is placed off limits to local military. That's an old tool that's been available for installation Commanders to use since forever. During more than half my military career at Fort Bragg NC, that tool was used so many times in Fayetteville, either problems with local businesses or with local "

    Consumer wrote on Jun 4, 2008 12:57 PM:

    " I don't think it would be acceptable for me to change the terms of my purchase after driving off the lot. Why would it be okay for the dealership to do it. Two parties signed the agreement. Both parties should be bound. "

    John wrote on Jun 4, 2008 12:45 PM:

    " "F.S." Believe you may be in serious need of reading comprehension course, as you totally failed to understand the post by TL. Whooosh!! over your head! "

    Know from experience wrote on Jun 4, 2008 12:37 PM:

    " "Facts" indicated in May 30 post that there were no facts or examples stated in the main article and that small minded residents of S.V. were going bananas bashing Ideal. Perhaps, but then the article would have been many pages longer with examples. Instead, there is no question that the majority of over 200 posts comes from first-hand knowledge of Ideal's practices and customer experiences. The bashing is therefore more than warranted, earned, and deserved. "

    anon wrote on Jun 4, 2008 12:12 PM:

    " Cut them a little slack. They admitted they were wrong and have taken steps to change. Time will tell. "

    RVgal wrote on Jun 4, 2008 11:32 AM:

    " Sandy sounds as if you carry a real chip on your shoulder against ALL soldiers. Believe it or not some of us are law abiding citizens, with respect for the speed limit. I would be quite certain in saying not ALL speeding accidents in Cochise County involve Military Personnel. If it was a Illegal who hit your daughter would you hate all Illegals, or an elderly person would you make a general statement of all senior citizens?? "

    Wally wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:55 AM:

    " It's surprising how many comments favor the car dealership instead of our servicemembers. The phrase "biting the hand that feeds them," comes to mind. "

    Steve wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:49 AM:

    " "Problems come about for trying to put people in cars who may not have the best credit". Why do they do this? For the warm and fuzzy feeling it gives them. That's why they sell vehicles for less than they pay for them. Wait, that doesn't sound right. Maybe they do it to make a profit by selling vehicles for more than they paid for them. That is the purpose of a business. Nothing wrong with that. The problems seem to come from the methods used to sell the vehicles. "

    WHAT wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:14 AM:

    " You have got to be joking. Do you really want the Hearld to dig into the back ground of your family?? "

    oh please wrote on Jun 4, 2008 8:44 AM:

    " A mistake and the deliberate act of with holding information are entirely different things. Most unethical business practises are never caught, however the thought that the owner [and family] does not know that his sales staff is engaging in shady business deals, is even more far fetched. Car dealerships are not in it for the good of the community, regardless of what they contribute into it, they are in the business of making big money! Giving a porting back into the community is nothing other then white washing their guilt and trying to look good. "

    brother and uncle wrote on Jun 4, 2008 7:05 AM:

    " To the Herald, I think you deserve a follow-up story to Richard, Pat, Beau, Heath and Tyler. I know them better than anybody in this world, and they are the finest family that there is, and to be judged by one moment in time is wrong. They have been a part of this community most of their adult lives and have given and given to the community, but yet you choose to focus on the bad, you the Herald fail our community by not printing the entire story, mistakes are made in bussness every day. Print a follow-up. "

    car guy wrote on Jun 4, 2008 6:42 AM:

    " I stand with the Military, they do not make these decisions lightly, nor do they like doing this. Rick and Pat at IDEAL has let their family, employees and community down by promoting and establishing this conduct/scams and policies. There is an old saying, what goes around comes around and to others that write that they are being pick on, how untrue. "

    F.S wrote on Jun 4, 2008 5:49 AM:

    " TL.. I am sure you are not complaining when those 'deadbeats in uniform' are putting their life on the line for your freedom and security. Get a life while others are looking after yours!! "

    Sandy Bernal wrote on Jun 3, 2008 10:10 PM:

    " Thank you Simplyme. As for RVgal you can visit my daughter at Cochise Garden of Rest Cemetary where her gravesite is located and find out for yourself. She won't be hard to find, or better yet I will send you pictures of the soldiers' car and it's after effects of 100 mph. Then you can question just how I know. "

    Bait and Switch wrote on Jun 3, 2008 10:00 PM:

    " I had a loan approved at a local bank and went out looking for a vehicle.I told the one dealership I went to that I had X amount of money to spend as approved by the bank. He knew that was my absolute limit,and when the paperwork was said and done,the vehicle was gonna be $3000 more than my limit. How did the salesman think I could pull that off?,How? He would Fudge the numbers to make it look like I shared my expenses at my residence,when I in fact never did.He said the bank wouldlikethat "

    TL wrote on Jun 3, 2008 9:24 PM:

    " It has been two weeks since Ideal was put off limits. So let's hear from an Ideal employee - how are things going now that you no longer have to deal with those horrible deadbeats in uniform? I'll bet it must be great to only work with the cream of the crop now. But are all of the other dealerships in town mad at you for taking all the best customers. Yes, I'm quite sure they are all very upset with you. "

    simplyme wrote on Jun 3, 2008 8:22 PM:

    " just want to respond to RVgal in behalf of myself and Sandy...you know they are a soldier when they are wearing the uniform. MG does have jurisdiction over this if he cares to enforce it. When a soldier is in a uniform they represent the US Military and their actions reflect that thereof. Get the license #, report it to the IG and see if something is done??? Of course the MG has jurisdiction and can restrict the soldier to the post. If soliers do get tickets can/are reported to the commander. "

    Rebecca wrote on Jun 3, 2008 3:41 PM:

    " What people should really do is to go through a bank or credit union and make sure that their credit is good enough to be able to purchase that car. That way there are no surprises later when you go to the dealers. The last time that we went to our credit union they told us how much we could afford and when we called them from Ideal to tell them the car we were looking into, the credit union advised us to look elsewhere because of all of the complaints they've had! That should tell you something! "

    PJR wrote on Jun 3, 2008 3:02 PM:

    " The Commander obviously had a reason to put this dealership off-limits! To protect the soldiers. Why is it such a big deal to everyone? Why is it such a big deal to the employees&the owners? Maybe because there are lots of money that they will be losing because of this ban?UMM I THINK SO!!I've never worked with ideal, I have worked with lawleys, I have great credit and am happy about my car purchase. But still will never do it again! "

    About time wrote on Jun 3, 2008 12:08 PM:

    " Never take a car without having the paperwork complete with final interest rate! Good on the post for making Ideal out of bounds! "

    Witness to History wrote on Jun 3, 2008 11:42 AM:

    " One last point - we should all think twice about buying cars on credit. If we could put the money away ahead of time and pay cash - even for "lesser" cars, we'd be so much further ahead in the long run. Y'all need to check out www.daveramsey.com to see what I'm talking about. The biggest threat to your long-term wealth is your insistence on making a car payment instead of driving a paid-for car. "

    simplyme wrote on Jun 3, 2008 11:38 AM:

    " Do not waste your time getting an attorney. File a complaint through the Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR), the phone # is 432-8483. If you go to cochise.az.gov and then click on self help forms you can file your own complaint easily. Just fill it out by hand and file it at the Clerks Office in Bisbee. Let an arbitrator handle it. Why do you wait to have someone else complain? If more of you had of done this a long time ago maybe this would have stopped. "

    Witness to History wrote on Jun 3, 2008 11:34 AM:

    " One of the oldest tricks in the "car business" is to get the driver attached to the car by letting him take it home. After that, 9 times out of 10 you can change the terms and he won't think twice about re-signing. Google "Bill Heard Nashville" if you want to see a worse example of this practice. (Thanks, Rico) "The car business is a NOW business. If you don't get it done NOW, it ain't happening" "

    OMG wrote on Jun 3, 2008 10:34 AM:

    " (cont) This matter is going to be reviewed by the military and it isn't just a credit issue the article states: health, safety, morals, welfare, morale so maybe this has to do with unsafe vehicles also. I agree the MG needs to take action against the soldiers that drive like Fry Blvd is the Indy 500. They are risking their own welfare and others. I am going to take their License #'s and report them to HQ. I recommend you do the same. Another question for complainers, why didn't you take action in before now? "

    RVgal wrote on Jun 3, 2008 10:18 AM:

    " This should have been done along time ago. Shady business practice by this company all the way around. To "Sandy" how do you know those speeders are Soldiers??? What a blanket statement. Alot of civilians out there that speed. Plus that isn't under MG Custers juristiction. That would be your law enforcement agencie(s). "

    OMG wrote on Jun 3, 2008 10:15 AM:

    " John, you have no clue of military life. How disrespectful to call a General a major and if you paid attention to the article you would have read that in para 3. Maybe he should sue you for deframation of character. Soldiers credit are not the only issue here. MG does have this right and you can research that FEDERAL regulation. Glad you appreciate "good American soil", soil this MG has fought for. Were you in VietNam, Somalia, Korea. These "adult" soldiers risk their lives and deserve the MG attention. to be continued. "

    frfrfrfreeeeeeeeeee wrote on Jun 3, 2008 10:14 AM:

    " Have to laugh, upon bringing up this article I have had 4 pop-ups for financing and cash advance deals. Buyer beware is tried and true, but as so many like to point out, not everyone is savvy to buying homes and cars. I guess they are deserving of ill treatment and shoddy practices. What a greedy world we all live in. I stand behind the Post General, someone has to say something of these practices or the next one to get ripped off may be YOUR son, daughter of mother!
    EDITOR'S NOTE: The Herald does not sell pop-up advertising on its website. "

    Bull wrote on Jun 3, 2008 9:23 AM:

    " Sandy: It is MAJOR GENERAL Custer; not Commander Custer
    Holly J: I find it funny that whenever a commander at ANY level looks out for the welfare of their soldiers, there will be ignorant, blowhards that will accuse him/her of fascist or socialist tactics. Grow up.
    John: You have absolutely NO IDEA what the responsibilities are for a commander of troops. "

    More of the Truth wrote on Jun 3, 2008 8:37 AM:

    " (Continued)...get placed off limits. Bottom line is that Ideal probably had numerous chances to address the concerns of the installation and failed to do so. I'm also certain that the problems go far beyond simple complaints; there has to be more. The base would not risk litigation if it were merely a case, or several cases, of mistakes made by the soldier or consumer. No, the base would only ban a business for repeated and deliberate predatory and/or harmful practices. "

    Sandy Bernal wrote on Jun 3, 2008 7:38 AM:

    " Maybe Commander Custer should worry more about the speed that these vehicles are being used for by the soldiers than the debt that his soldiers get into from buying them. "

    To Cheyenne wrote on Jun 3, 2008 7:33 AM:

    " There isn't a car dealer in town that I would do business with, but I believe Ideal is THE WORST! "

    More of the Truth wrote on Jun 3, 2008 7:25 AM:

    " For those demeaning the General's actions and the Fort who have no understanding of the rather lengthy and extensive process of the installation putting an establishment or business off-limits. It's not a knee-jerk reaction to a single incident and the business in question has ample time and opportunity to address the concerns of base. It's also not a one person show as the board consists of people from Army Community Service, the Installation Legal Office, and a variety of others. Only after all options have been explored does the General, in consultation with the board (Continued) "

    one mad woman wrote on Jun 3, 2008 4:37 AM:

    " Ideal does this to many people including myself . I reccomend getting a lawer getting out of contract and loans a.s.a.p "

    missed points wrote on Jun 3, 2008 2:40 AM:

    " This is not a matter of bad credit, this is a matter of poor credit, due to the fact that the soldiers are too young and have yet to establish themselves. Car dealersips and furniture stores are known to use the "financing fell through" scam frequently, because there is very little resistance from target group. Unfortunately, this unethical practise escalates, especially around military bases and has been allowed to go on for years. It is about time that it is brought out in the open. The business of "getting over" on young soldiers needed to be stopped long ago. "

    anon wrote on Jun 2, 2008 11:46 PM:

    " "What the company is now doing is making sure all the paperwork is completed before putting a person in a car so there are no surprises, Johnston said." Sounds like the company is admitting they were at fault and has changed procedure so it doesnt happen anymore. "

    wonder wrote on Jun 2, 2008 7:29 PM:

    " Kinda makes you wonder how they could afford to remodel???? "

    Cheyenne wrote on Jun 2, 2008 6:24 PM:

    " Why is everyone beating up on IDEAL, they are not the only one practicing this way. When the MG put IDEAL off limits he should of done others that are worst. Obviously they just acted on impulse when if the POST had done a study they will see that their are others out their. "

    John wrote on Jun 2, 2008 5:34 PM:

    " It's about time the military stepped in and closed these guys down, but I also put fault on today's soldiers and NCOs. When you buy a car you walk into a dealership knowing what you can spend. If it does not fit in your budget walk away before you sign the contract. NCOs take care of your soldiers. "

    John wrote on Jun 2, 2008 4:40 PM:

    " "John", MG Custer is not a Major. His actions are to protect soldiers coming to Fort Huachuca through the MI school from being targetted by unscrupulous businesses. He's not condoning the debt that careless soldiers have gotten themselves into. He's preventing naive soldiers from falling victim to a repeated practice of deception from a local business. "

    former wildcat wrote on Jun 2, 2008 4:31 PM:

    " the unfortunate fact about all of this is that all of the press will be good or bad for busines, lets not forget that the economic impact of a busines that might close due to all of this, the poor employee's & mitsubishi customers will suffer the worst. the economy is hard enough today. in true "ideal" fashion, it is everyone elses fault this has happened, stand-up and take some accountability for your actions mr. j, be humble and fix your mistakes, it just might save your business! "

    Ideal is AWESOME wrote on Jun 2, 2008 4:28 PM:

    " I agree with Chrissy Cox. Paul Hains is an very honest down to earth salesperson. He I have bought THREE ideal cars from him in 3 years! Ideal automotive got me out of a DRIVETIME car and lowered my interest rate by half! They have excellent customer service and repair. I believe the board must have been smoking something when they made this decision. Do not blame someone else because you failed to listen to the salesperson or finance department!! "

    former wildcat wrote on Jun 2, 2008 4:19 PM:

    " the actions of this "organization" has gone unpunished for far too long. why mr. johnston have you not become a member of the bbb, new car dealership association, or any other organization that might not approve of your pratices?? the answer is simple...you are not a quaility organization. it is only fortunate for you that no one else is looking into your practices. the base is the least of your worries.lets not forget the word "disclosure" on damaged or salvaged vehicles. take notice mr. j, your customers are! "

    Holly J. wrote on Jun 2, 2008 3:03 PM:

    " I love what John just wrote; we are turning into a socialist society that everyone expects to be taken care of instead of taking care of themselves do we want to become the Soviet Union! Hail Big Brother! My father-in-law, 20 years in the Army and 20 year working for Fort Huachuca is disgusted with what the Fort is doing, this man is probably one of the most intelligent people that has ever worked on Fort and he believes that these kids are not being resposible for their actions and need to grow up. If they don't then welcome UnitedSocialistStatesofAmerica! "

    Donzell wrote on Jun 2, 2008 12:36 PM:

    " MG Custer is taking care of military folk from predatory business practices. His actions cause other businesses to think twice before targeting our military personnel. "

    To Buyer Beware wrote on Jun 2, 2008 12:21 PM:

    " If your going to link to a web site get it right. It is Edmunds.com "

    To Mr Rudnik wrote on Jun 2, 2008 11:41 AM:

    " Don't assume that because someone has less than perfect credit that they are irresponsible. Poor credit can happen to anyone quickly due to layoffs, unforseen medical expenses, etc. It is difficult to rebuild your credit once it is screwed, but that doesn't mean people don't need transportation. Bottom line is, you shouldn't hand over the keys if you know the deal isn't complete. Don't make promises to the customer you can't keep. "

    So whats next General wrote on Jun 2, 2008 10:01 AM:

    " Sugguestion box: Gas stations fuel cost too much.Grocery stores price of food is too high.Hospitals you have too wait too long.The big three,my sticker window said it would get 23 mpg and gets 19 mpg.Dr offices because it takes 2-3 weeks for a appointment.Mortgage company,because my home is being foreclosed.Credit cards because they can change interest rates in the middle of a loan without cause.Taxes they just go to other countries. General do you sign anthing without reading and understaning it. I don't think so. Co-signing(please say it's aint so) People in Flordia from voting. That should have been #1 "

    John wrote on Jun 2, 2008 9:15 AM:

    " "WHOS YOUR DADDY? Major Custer sir." Major I would think that your soldiers having bad credit should be the primarily concern. Who are you to dictate who and where anybody does business. These are grown men and women. Your so called leadership methods need to be evaluated. Start leading from the front not the back Major. Teach your soldiers how to avoid bad credit and they will not encounter this type of situation. Do not inflict your socialistic beliefs, totalitarian views and ego on good American soil. "

    Pauly wrote on Jun 2, 2008 6:44 AM:

    " Chrissy you're very naive. Being declared OFF LIMITS doesn't happen often because that decision must be beyond reproach. Ideal Cares has obviously worked very hard for that distinguished honor. You’re friend may be an honorable individual but the business wasn’t. Good buy Ideal Cars, RIP. "

    Bob wrote on Jun 2, 2008 6:37 AM:

    " Are there any organizations that protect buyers in Sierra Vista? I know of several other businesss that should be put "off limits" because of similar practices. "

    Buyer Beware wrote on Jun 2, 2008 3:21 AM:

    " I went to a local dealer,to purchase a new Mini Van because they quoted me a price $500 cheaper then the best deal in Tucson. It took them 3 1/2 hours to "process" me and finance manager's office the price had jumped up by over $5000 for all the "Extras" on the car. I walked, came back the next day, wrote the phone quote price plus $200 extra on a piece of paper, gave them a 30 min. ultimatum and got the car. Edmundson.com explains what car dealerships do, it is worth checking it out and doing the homework! "

    happened to me wrote on Jun 1, 2008 9:15 PM:

    " hats off to you, this happened to me in 04. Purchase completed and a week later im called in to put down a huge down payment or return the vehicle, oh yea, i was told they had already sold my car, so then they tried to put me in a reject car with over 80,000 miles on it. it was a mess, i'm glad someone else has the guts not to trade with them. "

    about time wrote on Jun 1, 2008 5:31 PM:

    " I have lived in SV 25 years now. It is about time someone did this. We went to buy a car from Ideal and they lost our credit reports 4 times and kept running them without telling us. All our information was just out therelost on someones desk or something.They are just horrible for SV! Im so happy someone did something about it.God bless to our soldiers! "

    An Informed Consumer wrote on Jun 1, 2008 5:28 PM:

    " I always go to Tucson to buy my cars. Local auto dealerships and the attitude of salesmen is that since I am a woman that I need a man with me to buy a car. People need to live within their means and stop trying to keep up with the Joneses and staying in debt. When you walk in a dealership, know the max that you are willing to put out of your pocket for a down payment, payoff, extended warranties, etc. I just bought a new car and would not accept delivery until I read and understood my contract. "

    Chrissy Cox wrote on Jun 1, 2008 12:40 PM:

    " It is astonishing to me that Ft. Huachaca would take action against a local business because of complaints from customers. This is ridiculous. As we are all aware, people can say what they want with little or no proof; just look at the comments before mine. I am certain of the integrity of some of Ideal's employees like Paul Hains. Muck-Racking is popular practice for those who do not want to take responsibility for themselves. The Army should recognize personal choice and therefore the consequences that go with it. It is called life. "

    Most SV Dealerships are like this wrote on Jun 1, 2008 10:21 AM:

    " I have lived here for every. I even went to school with the Johnston boys. My husband bought a car from them over four years ago. I was upset when he can home with this over priced, over interest truck. However, they are not the only ones in town to change the deal after the fact. There is one company here that promises DVD players then the super fine print indictes you pay for it. One used to call you back a week later and demand more money. "

    FInally wrote on Jun 1, 2008 8:36 AM:

    " Finally. I have lived in SV for the last 10 years. It is about time that this happened. This establishment is just like those fast loan places that prey on soldiers.

    Praise to you MG CUSTER "

    anon wrote on May 31, 2008 11:12 PM:

    " I dont see how anyone can defend the practice of signing a deal then changing the terms 3 days later. If its not against the law it should be. "

    I would like to shake the Generals hand wrote on May 31, 2008 9:23 PM:

    " I wouldn't buy a car from Ideal cars if my life depended on it and they were the last dealership standing. They're salespersonnel promise things they don't deliver and then you end up having to pick up the title, resistration and pay the fees right then and there. Anyone looking for some good vehicles deals go to Tucson Dodge they're great!! "

    What a break wrote on May 31, 2008 8:52 PM:

    " Go for it soldiers with worthless credit, buy cars someplace else, and then complain again. So Custer can ban another business, and get accolades from the losers. "

    Amber wrote on May 31, 2008 5:40 PM:

    " But they are saying that they give these people cars, at prices they can afford, then come back later with a totally different price. So how are these people wanting more than they can afford? Ideal should not tell a price then change it later. "

    to huh wrote on May 31, 2008 5:10 PM:

    " You are correct soldiers arn not banned! However as of Oct 1 2007 the Federal Government made it a law no more check writing for miltary, military spouses and depentants . I know because i worked in a check cashing store when the law was passed. That persons blog was true. Just a little difference between banned and law. "

    responsibility wrote on May 31, 2008 2:33 PM:

    " To those saying the soldiers should be responsible for the mess they get themselves into, yes they should. Ideally, (ha ha! sorry!) people who want more than they can afford and get in a bind should be left to starve and die in the streets when their houses/cars are repo'd. Unfortunately, our society is not prepared to allow that, and we just keep bailing people out at MY expense. I'd rather see these people treated like the children they behave like than have to spend money feeding/housing them because they can't manage life. "

    Dan wrote on May 31, 2008 11:58 AM:

    " Ray: a new soldier, airman, sailor or marine can afford a new car if they get a bonus, or sent on deployment to the right area collect a little thing called per diem and buy that sweet new shiny four wheeled piece of heaven! that's how i did it! only a year in the service, went on deployment for 6 months came back with $1600 and bought me a car, it was used! and i had me some money left too! "

    Riding high in April wrote on May 31, 2008 10:29 AM:

    " Shot down in May. That's life, and I ain't going to buy it. "

    Hooray wrote on May 31, 2008 10:20 AM:

    " Hats off to General Custer and Colonel Sturgeon for having the backbone to deal with shady, corrupt practices in the city of Sierra Vista! They also didn't put up with the city council and their hair-brained shady deal of the parking lot next to the unguarded access gate to the fort. Finally someone has some brains around here and some backbone to follow it up. Hip, hip, hooray! to Custer and Sturgeon! "

    Ray wrote on May 31, 2008 10:09 AM:

    " I wonder how a new soldier can even afford a used car, never mind a new one? "

    SGM ret wrote on May 31, 2008 10:01 AM:

    " Thank you MG Custer ! This is way overdue and hopefully others will follow, Too many of us are ripped off here as it is. "

    Robert Neidow wrote on May 31, 2008 7:48 AM:

    " This is great news I haven't heard of any other practices like this happening here in Sierra Vista, the community has always treated service memebers with respect. This will surely be noticed in the community in the future. Now maybe we can look at insurance people recruiting in the shoppets. "

    Former SSG wrote on May 31, 2008 7:45 AM:

    " After consulting with the Sales people of SV. Sales are in the valley. Now is not a time of denial. MG your correct about the proper steps of recovery for IDEAL. Since it's a one horse town, compettion is intense. Let's ask ourselves 1) Who was on the committee? 2) Did the committee consult with another dealership?(maybe the owner of another delership)hum. COMPETITION GONE! It is well known that certain owners cater to the needs of the leadership of the Fort. Let's make sure this was an indiscrimenate decision. "

    Yay for HAD ENOUGH wrote on May 31, 2008 6:43 AM:

    " to D. Gregory: Ideal obviously committed more than one violation don't you think ...the US Army doesn't pull the trigger for a one time offense and put a business on the "off-limits" list. So again, the fact that every minute detail isn't in the article isn't relevant. What is relevant is that the business had repeated violations, enough to make the US Army's radar and be placed on the "off-limits" list. The issue isn't about good customer service or liking anyone. It is about violating business practices - which obviously occurred. "

    Huh wrote on May 31, 2008 6:19 AM:

    " The military is NOT "banned" from going to check cashing places. Also, the military can not tell a family member where they can or can not cash checks from. That wa just a bad post. "

    Silly wrote on May 31, 2008 5:32 AM:

    " I bought a car from Ideal and had nothing but great service and I am military. I think if a couple of dumb Soldiers bought car that they couldn't afford then that is their problem. Buying a car is not rocket science. To penalize an entire community because of some idiots who got in over their heads is just pathetic. This is just another example of the military leadership over reacting to a simple problem. The problem is we have too many dumb Soldiers. Stop lowering the standards! I must say I am embarrassed by the leadership! "

    BuyinTucson wrote on May 31, 2008 1:58 AM:

    " What goes around comes around. All you people bad mouthing our soldiers...shame on you next time u go vote thank a car dealer.The contracts that these people signed were not honored by Ideal. As far as it being because of bad credit that isn't a fact. We finally have a commander at this fort who takes care of his soldiers. "

    Murphy number three wrote on May 31, 2008 1:16 AM:

    " Post of 8:43 am 30 May is #2 murphy. Now I am sick am tired of the ID issue in the other forums. Dont bring them here. The Subject here is IDEAL not IDs! So if you have an ID issue go to another website that serves LOGINS like the Cochise County Bloggers. "

    common sense wrote on May 30, 2008 11:35 PM:

    " Army is protecting the soldiers. With so many short term soldiers here for school it makes perfectly good sense to protect them from anything that distracts from their mission. Soldiers do go to briefings about finance, not all listen and not all businesses have the best interest of customers in mind. I'm glad the Army checks into these matters. Many businesses are off limits by order of Unit Commanders. If Ideal was banned post wide, it's backed up by evidence.I'll take my business elsewhere.Prices are too high in SV anyway. "

    Repentance wrote on May 30, 2008 10:42 PM:

    " We must all eventually account for unscruplous behavior. My spouse and I, a couple in their 70's, know firsthand the sales practices of this dealership. We were victimized and treated with disdain for the sake of the almighty dollar. It does appear that the finance manager and director have engaged in a pattern of conduct. Otherwise, why would this action be taken? We only regret that they have not been sanctioned for a much longer period of time for the suffering they have caused. "

    BAC wrote on May 30, 2008 10:15 PM:

    " For all the people saying that the soldiers need to read there contracts before signing is irrelevant, this happened to me and my wife on our third purchase from ideal. We reveiwed everything and were told that we were approved, after having 2 cars for almost a month Ideal called and said that they "tried to achieve financing but could not" At that point I shoped around and noticed that Ideal is the only dealer that will give a car and sign all the papers without actual approval from the bank. we did get the down back though! "

    MJ wrote on May 30, 2008 9:53 PM:

    " I been in the business for over 15 yrs and we always know what condition a customers credit is in, because the first rule of thumb is you have a customer fill out a credit application so you can run their credit to see if they can even get approved on a car. As a sales manager and finance manager you always know if you have a good chance of get a customer approved. "

    no one really wrote on May 30, 2008 8:46 PM:

    " I would like to address cheyenne. Your wish for military being banned from check cashing accured October 1, 2007. The federal government past a law that no military, spouses, nor their dependants can write checks in these stores. "

    Facts wrote on May 30, 2008 8:36 PM:

    " There weren't any facts or examples stated in the article, yet the small town, small minded people with bad credit, are going banana's jumping on the bandwagon bashing Ideal. "

    Nae wrote on May 30, 2008 7:43 PM:

    " The Armed Forces should consider educating all soldiers, especially the young ones. Limits should also be placed on the "fast deals" and "quick fixes" that business' can offer. As a customer, I personally have never had an issue with Ideal and they have always been polite and honest with me, however, family members have been treated differently. "

    Had enough complaining wrote on May 30, 2008 7:13 PM:

    " Yes as a matter of fact I do know them and didnt like them then and I sure dont like them now. The owners are shady and a few other choice things that I wont place here. Remember this is a small town and a lot of us went to high school with Heath. So I do know what I am talking about THANK YOU. "

    D. Gregory wrote on May 30, 2008 7:11 PM:

    " Yay for HAD ENOUGH you seem to be an educated person, so why would you state an opinion as fact? Do you know for certain that there was any ripping off of anyone..."and they did it more than once."??? No one cares about your opinion or any other opinion posted herein. Facts speak for themselves.What's the entire story? Why isn't the base providing more details? This sour grapes rhetoric is a waste of time and serves only as a venue for folks to vent while hiding behind a small town blog. It's almost amusing. "

    SERIOUSLY wrote on May 30, 2008 6:37 PM:

    " I've had GREAT customer service with Ideal in Sierra Vista. It's always the people with lousy credit that expect the world delivered to them. You have to earn having that world delivered to you, if you're a cilivian or soldier I know that they are all treated the same. Sometimes the amounts do change, it's the same as for buying a house...get your ducks in a row and deal with the outcome. Ideal Automotive in Sierra Vista will get my business again...everything is a case by case basis. "

    Buzzd wrote on May 30, 2008 5:07 PM:

    " OK so it's a free country guys, so find somewhere else to get a car, or ride the bus! "

    Sammy wrote on May 30, 2008 5:07 PM:

    " Good! I am so tired of businesses playing stunts like this. Military or civilian... They make great offers, then well... there was a mistake. I have excellent credit and this happened from another dealership. I rolled out the door with a vehicle for 2 weeks! Then received a phone call that there was a change in my payments. I too had to come up with more money or a higher interest rate. No one told me this was subject to change. "

    Less Than Ideal wrote on May 30, 2008 4:55 PM:

    " Let the soldier drive the car for a few days and then tell him he has to pay more. Ideal has been doing business with the military for a long time and should know what an E-1 can afford. Of course they're gonna oversell - they're in business to make money, not protect soldiers. I've seen the likes of Ideal outside every base in the U.S. "

    DD Bear wrote on May 30, 2008 4:37 PM:

    " I have been a customer for the past 8 years. I've been loyal to this dealership because I've received nothing but outstanding customer service from the entire staff (sales, service, and finance). I'll continue my loyalty to them. I've never been cheated or misled during my entire relationship with Ideal Cars. My children have both purchased vehicles from them also and have received the same treatment. For the record, my son is active duty, husband retired, daughter DOD Civ. "

    Yay for HAD ENOUGH wrote on May 30, 2008 4:10 PM:

    " You are most correct...ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Who cares who likes the Johnstons and Ideal Cars. The facts speak VERY LOUDLY for themselves. The US Army/Gen Custer obvious had enough stuff to warrant a 90 day "no buy" time. This should be a warning to all other businesses. And as far as knowing better - a lot of these soldiers are here for their first time away from home, young, and thinking "who would rip off a soldier." Obviously Ideal cars..and they did it more than once. "

    MG wrote on May 30, 2008 2:45 PM:

    " If I was a senior manager for Ideal Cars submitting a comment about the off limits status just imposed, I would be apologizing to the soldiers and civilians who make up our fine community - assuring them the next 90 days would be spent resolving current complaints and removing any questionable sales practices. I would not waste my time calling what must be my worst clients mean names. There are five stages of grief: 1.denial; 2.anger; 3.bargining; 4.depression; 5.acceptance. Ten days into it #1, have been covered, time to quickly move through #3-#5. Leaders lead. "

    Verification first wrote on May 30, 2008 12:22 PM:

    " Seems to me if the dealer just waited long enough for the banks to do their due diligence/verification on the borrowers before handing them the keys, all this could be avoided. The practice of offering "tentative terms" subject to change after the transaction seems a little deceptive, even if the lender's initial information was incomplete or incorrect. The dealer should at least agree to take the cars back and return downpayments if the cars aren't damaged or excessively depreciated. "

    MARY wrote on May 30, 2008 11:47 AM:

    " OK I USE TO LIVE IN SIERRA VISTA BOUGHT A FEW CARS HERE AND THERE IT IS PART OF THE CAR BUYING BUSINESS THAT THE AMOUNTS MIGHT CHANGE.. IT IS YOUR DECISION IF YOU SIGN YOUR NAME ON THE CONTRACTS. IT IS ABOUT TIME YOU DEAL WITH YOUR MISTAKES ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T HAVE MOMMY AND DADDY TO GET YOU OUT OF IT. IDEAL IS THE BEST DEALERSHIP IN THAT TOWN. "

    TO Had enough wrote on May 30, 2008 11:04 AM:

    " I am sure you would not be saying the same thing if you were a business owner and the same thing happened to you. Unless you know the Johnstons personally, how can you say that they have personal issues? And in an economy like this, 90 days can seem like a lifetime, if the military buyers make up enough of the income at the dealership, 90 days could also mean a lifetime for them. If you dont want to see what is written or said in this forum, stay away:) "

    Think about it. wrote on May 30, 2008 10:50 AM:

    " If Ideal is so "trustworthy" why have more than 1 financial institution basically banned them from doing any loans with them? I have bought 3 vehicles from them and have known Brian, Beau, Heath, Rick for quite a few years. I dealt with Jason mostly who is no longer there. Decent people away from the dealership, but definately not in the business. "

    Millie J. wrote on May 30, 2008 10:50 AM:

    " I am amazed that the military has to hand hold juvenile soldiers who cant keep their credit straight. Give me a break. I bought my car from Ideal and was treated (and continue to be treated) with stellar service and style.
    I have NO complaints on any department from Service, to sales, including the finance folks. They are top notch and this was NOT my first rodeo! Hang in there Ideal. Sierra Vista and the fort might grow up. "

    Rose wrote on May 30, 2008 10:45 AM:

    " To any suggesting that the military should take their business elsewhere, I'd have to suggest getting a handle on some basic economics and realizing that the post provides the better part of the decently paying jobs in this town. Without the post, this town would soon become a shell of what it is now because there would not be enough jobs to support the population. Think before you speak and while you're suggesting others think of the consequences and be aware, might I suggest you join the group and do the same. "

    Satisfied Customer wrote on May 30, 2008 10:12 AM:

    " I bought a brand new car from Ideal 5 years ago and got it at a low interest rate of 3.2%. The customer service was great, and when I had the car tinted, they gave me a loaner to use. I've never had any problems with the car or from Ideal. The only thing that I could see go wrong is that the Soldier lied about being mobilized or on active duty (for training) for less than a year. And Ideal would at least know how much money they make by looking at their LES. "

    bill wright wrote on May 30, 2008 9:37 AM:

    " So did you know that Ideal Automotive and the "Johnstons" paid for Buena High School to have fences for their baseball and softball fields. Or that they gave money to help the booster club every year. Do your kids play sports. How about them supporting little league teams every year, soccer teams, basketball teams, football teams, and everything else in the community. i am sure you have been affected positively by them. show some apriciation. "

    Teresa wrote on May 30, 2008 9:33 AM:

    " Its true the people who have no prblem with them probably have good credit, they would have no problem anywhere, its the people with bad credit they take advantage of.As for the comment the owner made "We will finalize all deals" duh any smart business would have done that first any way.Just another way they stroked the customer along. "

    Dear Kelly M. Place wrote on May 30, 2008 9:32 AM:

    " You sound like you know what you are talking about. "

    Kaumel wrote on May 30, 2008 9:08 AM:

    " Thank you General Custer for looking out for the soldiers. Once again it surprises me how so many people blame the Soldier for getting ripped off and how so many residents denegrate the Soldiers. If it weren't for Fort Huachuca's Soldiers and the thousands of civilian jobs, Sierra Vista would cease to exist. This town should be grateful they have a military base to support it. For those of you who suggested that local owners not conduct business with Soldiers they should just let General Custer know that they want to be put "off Limits"! "

    anon wrote on May 30, 2008 9:05 AM:

    " Last time I bought a car I had to wait like a half hour while they checked my credit. Is that no longer possible? I cant imagine running a business and allowing someone to take the car without first knowing they can pay. I think if the car dealership signed a contract they should have to stand by it. No changing it 3 days later. Be responsible for your actions, as some are fond of saying. "

    James wrote on May 30, 2008 9:04 AM:

    " For those whining about "not taking responsibility for what they (customers) agree to" I think there needs to be some clarification. The practice is not, I repeat, NOT new. The dealer makes a guess as to what down payment, APR, monthly payment, length of payments, etc a bank will take. Lawley has done this for me, and it comes at or under what they guessed. Ideal is "surprising" them later. "Oops, my bad. Want the car? Pay more." "

    Murphy wrote on May 30, 2008 8:43 AM:

    " Post of 2:37 am 30 May is #2 cheyenne. "

    Had enough complaining wrote on May 30, 2008 8:41 AM:

    " Ok enough is enough, there are people that praise Ideal and there are people that dont care for Ideal, bottom line is this the military felt they had enough to say for the next 90 days no solider can buy a car from Ideal. After that 90 days they will look at it again. Come on people its not like its for a lifetime or anything. Are there personal issue that the owners have at Ideal yep sure is, but all of this bad mouth bold letter writing doesnt do any good. So GROW UP!!!!!! "

    Jay wrote on May 30, 2008 8:09 AM:

    " It's pretty obvious that there was enough evidence provided for the fort to take this action. Notice how Ideal has now changed their practice and completes all paperwork so there's no "surprises", maybe they should have been doing that all along. "

    Business Consultant wrote on May 30, 2008 8:08 AM:

    " The SV outlet of this company is managed by the owner's son. An employee described him a couple years ago as a "real go-getter, determined to become a millionaire before reaching 30." Does that explain some of the business practices at this dealership? Related subject: Isn't is a bit odd that key employees are commenting so defensively on the Army's ban? And if the company considers this venue so important, where's the comment from the manager and/or owner? As a small business consultant advising this company, I'd advise them to shut up--they're aggravating an already bad situation. "

    Sgt William S. Lawson wrote on May 30, 2008 6:36 AM:

    " In response to concerned's May 29, 2008 comment: How about we take our military post, soldiers, family members and employees and leave this one horse town. If you really think you don't need our business. In case you have not noticed, this is not exactly Phoenix. The businesses around here might want to think about cutting off their noses to spite their faces. "

    Cheyenne wrote on May 30, 2008 2:37 AM:

    " To BRYAN GRIMM, as a finance director can you at least drop the CAPS. I myself am aainst business these type of business practices... yes the ones that puts their sights on soldiers.
    Too bad that the post hasnt put the Cash Advance joints off limits, if you think Ideal was bad, guys need to look into th cash advance joints. "

    Kev wrote on May 30, 2008 1:46 AM:

    " Come on people! The Johnstons are well known and respected in the community. Yes, Ideal offers a solution to people that most likey have no other. As a business, they take the chance that they may also get screwed, but they cover ther backside, and when the "over financed" consumer meets the destiny they put themsleves in, Ideal recovers, as they should. Putting them Off Limits is total BS. Hopefully it will bring them more business. "

    Jason wrote on May 30, 2008 1:14 AM:

    " Alrighty... I got a great deal on a used vehicle from Ideal, I have no complaints about their dealings, they were better to me than Lawley. Recently I was just looking for a vehicle from both dealers and niether could get me what I wanted,I went to Craigslist found the vehicle that I wanted in Phoenix...People just need to wait and know what they can afford, if they are not smart enough to read a deal, they shouldn't buy! "

    Jeremiah Hinkle wrote on May 30, 2008 12:51 AM:

    " Just wanted to add- the comment about the owners houses and cars of Ideal; A business is supposed to turn profit in order to be successful. Who are we to say they can't make money? That is how they are able to support so many activities in Sierra Vista- go inside Ideal and take a look at the wall of excited faces that Ideal has helped. SUPPORT THEM- THEY SUPPORT US! "

    TO IDEAL WORKERS wrote on May 30, 2008 12:44 AM:

    " WHEN YOU TYPE WITH ALL CAPS, IT MAKES IT SEEM LIKE YOU ARE SHOUTING AT US AND IS CONSIDERED BADDDD MANNNEEERRS!!!! SO IF YOU WANT SOMEONE TO LISTEN TO YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY QUIT SHOUTING!!!!! ONE RAISES ONE'S VOICE WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE A VALID POINT!!!!!! WE ARE NOT HARD OF READING!!!! "

    Jeremiah Hinkle wrote on May 30, 2008 12:42 AM:

    " I can't believe this. Ideal and the Johnstons are incredible supporters of the fort and the community. I have had nothing but great experiences with Brian Grimm (GM), Rick and Beaux Johnston(owners), Salesman, and the ladies in Finance. I have purchased 4 cars from them over the years and never had any trouble or complaints. I will continue to purchase from Ideal and can only hope that our town is mature enough to do the same and stop letting the media and government run our lives and decisions. Still doubtfull? Meet them yourselves- Great people. "

    Chris wrote on May 29, 2008 11:53 PM:

    " Holy crap! Realize you cant afford your car payments, blame the dealership. Can no longer afford your adjustable rate mortgage, blame the lenders. Not satisfied with your life in the military, blame the recruiter. What ever happened to taking responsibility for your own actions? Rather than blaming the businesses, educate the military better on personal finances. Know what your credit score is and have financing arranged before even walking into the dealership so you truly know what you can or cannot afford - US Army, Retired. "

    MG wrote on May 29, 2008 11:11 PM:

    " (continued) third, those commerters implying bad experience buyers are getting what they deserve because they have bad credit or are uniformed just don't get it - you don't have to be a loser to be treated poorly by a car dealership. And finally, because a car deal only happens when a buyer feels they have been offered a "fair " price it should come as no surprise that any dealership that attempts to reclose the deal with more dealer-favored terms might find themselves blacklisted. So the question is not will Ideal survive this, but rather, who's next? "

    sgt bilko wrote on May 29, 2008 11:06 PM:

    " It sure will be nice when the boys, and yes i mean boys, that defend our country realize what reality is. A contract is what it says, its a contract. that means you are obligated to what you sign. So yes you have to pay what you agreed to. So if you have any trouble with your decisions go home and cry to mommy. "

    MG wrote on May 29, 2008 11:03 PM:

    " As a former SV car salesperson I would like to share a few observations about this current "less than Ideal" situation. First, it might be interesting to those who have never inprocessed into Ft. H that new arrivals have long been warned to not do business with ANY of the local car dealers due to because much better deals can be found in nearby Tucson, etc. Second, no business will ever be more ethical than the person who owns/runs it. He/she sets the standards and employees will live up or down to those standards or just move on (continued) "

    John McCain wrote on May 29, 2008 11:03 PM:

    " All of these men in the military need to man up to there decisions. Come out and say who you are if you have complaints and all will be subbmitted into a filter. But we understand if you cant stand up for what you have to say. our society is based on a bunch of babies. I cant wait till the good old days come back when people are responsible for their decisions. "

    anon wrote on May 29, 2008 10:59 PM:

    " I think if some of these stories are true then a criminal investigation is in order. "

    Chris Johnson wrote on May 29, 2008 10:14 PM:

    " I am happy to see that Ideal is getting support from the people in this community. My wife has worked for the Johnstons the last two years and whenever we have needed help they have always been there for us. It is sad to see that so many people cannot take responsability for their actions, the debt that we are in is because of our own actions. People think that they can point the finger at the easiest target and unfortunatly Ideal was caught in the cross hairs. I hope you all decide to grow up. "

    Sierra Vista Resident wrote on May 29, 2008 9:50 PM:

    " Thank you, General Custer, for protecting the soldiers, which is the sole reason an order like this is issued: a local business uses unscrupulous business practices to victimize soldiers. The soldiers understand that their commander is looking out for them based on repeated complaints, not imposing a new rule for no reason. This is a positive benefit of military life, not a negative, and it lets businesses who do this type of thing realize that there are consequences for their actions. "

    Kelly M Place wrote on May 29, 2008 9:19 PM:

    " It is the dealership, all dealerships, who are stuck holding the bag when the bank calls to verify a two year job and it turns out to be six months, or the $3500 a month stated on the app turns out to be $1500, or is not proovable at all because the customer neglected to mention they are paid under the table, or the customer does'nt think car insurance is a requirement to drive. So don't go knocking our tactics without fully understanding the sittuations we are put in when taking on bad credit or no credit customers. "

    Kelly M Place wrote on May 29, 2008 9:18 PM:

    " As for the rest of you, get the whole story, know the true facts. Are people called back for higher rates...yes, are they asked for additional down...yes, and on ocassion they are even told that they have to return the vehicle, but what your not hearing is how they were dishonest about the personal information they provided to us for the loan. Or how the trade isnt free and clear or in their name, as stated. "

    BRYAN GRIMM wrote on May 29, 2008 8:59 PM:

    " I AM THE FINANCE DIRECTOR AT IDEAL AND HAVE BEEN A PART OF THE FAMILY THERE FOR 14 YEARS.WE HAVE ALWAYS TRIED TO HELP EVERYONE THAT CAME THRU OUR DOORS.WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CANT PLEASE EVERYONE BUT WE ARE EXTREMELY CLOSE. IN 3YRS,OVER 3500 CUSTOMERS, WE HAVE A HAND FULL THAT WERE NOT HAPPY WITH US,AND WE CANT HELP THAT.WE DO NOT KEEP MONEY FROM PEOPLE OR CHARGE BY THE MILE. WE NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL.WE ARE HERE FOR GOOD AND APPRECIATE ALL THE SUPPORT FROM OUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS. KEEP WRITING WE WANT YOUR SUPPORT.THANK YOU COCHISE COUNTY "

    Kelly M Place wrote on May 29, 2008 8:53 PM:

    " You can try, but you won't, because this is not now, nor has it ever been a practice of Ideal Automotive Group. So please inlighten me "know the truth". If you can find even one person who was charged these "rental fees" as you refer to them, for the day and the mileage from my dealership....please... bring them to me and I will gladly refund them there charges from my own pocket!!! "

    Kelly M Place wrote on May 29, 2008 8:52 PM:

    " DIRECT TO "KNOW THE TRUTH"...I do not know who you are but I am a proud employee of Ideal Automotive for the last five years, not afraid to state my name. I would advise you the next time you want to inform people of the truth, you should know what you are talking about! If this is the truth you speak then please provide us with one name, just one, of someone who paid for these so called "rental fees" "

    Military wrote on May 29, 2008 8:51 PM:

    " If anyone knows the military organization then they would know that this order is very uncommon. For a commander of a military base to issue this he must have valid reasons. I am sure they investigated this issue and found just cause for the order. As Our military Serve this country and die for this country. Give them the respect they earn dont take them for every dime they have. Military Members stand up and be PROUD you are the greatest and we THANK YOU! "

    Hey Murphy wrote on May 29, 2008 8:38 PM:

    " Those soldiers signed themselves over to the US goverment as their property.They are more than an employer, they are now the owner. Most of these military personell trying to buy cars with bad or no credit are probably 18 year old KIDS. The cash advance places should be "Off limits" if a car dealership can. There's dirty rotten car salesman at every dealer you go to. Not being armed with knoweldge and good credit is just plain stupid. "

    OK wrote on May 29, 2008 8:26 PM:

    " Most of the people that have those problems have horse manure credit.
    But if it is true that an owner of Ideal is the one that was caught with a stolen backhoe, it sure makes me wonder about their business ethics. "

    RK Pouch wrote on May 29, 2008 8:21 PM:

    " If Brad Rudkin has a place in his dark heart for Ideal I guess maybe I do too. "

    It is about time part wrote on May 29, 2008 8:19 PM:

    " While there is no doubt that some people get into cars that they can’t really afford, why aren’t the other dealerships suffering the same consequences? Hmmm, must be the “system” picking on the Johnstons again. Again, do you really think the world has singled out, and is just trying to “Get”, the Johnstons? "

    Ms. Truth wrote on May 29, 2008 8:12 PM:

    " The military is not "controlling" the soldiers, but "protecting" them. If you only were privvy to the facts you wouldnt make such comments. They have a responsibility to protect soldiers. The complaints were a compilation of years of distress and didnt happen over night. Unethical business practices from business owners need to be held accountable. A problem doesnt become a problem unless its in "your house". Don't judge the consumer. Hold business owners responsible for their practices. Its about time the Post acted positively in this manner. Major kudos to Gen Custer! "

    Ms. Truth wrote on May 29, 2008 8:07 PM:

    " To have a business is a privilege not a right. You serve the community and should do it with integrity. Its not always about managing finances, its about being an integrous business owner and treating people fairly! Kudos to the Fort Commander, and the city should take heed. Dont comment on what you dont know. "

    buddy wrote on May 29, 2008 6:48 PM:

    " I bought a vehicle from this same company 3 years ago brand new and had nothing but problems from day 1. It was in the shop at least 4 times a year for the same electrical problem that took them 3 years to fix. The problem only got fixed after I wrote the manufacturer and made my complaints known to them. I would never buy anything from them again. "

    Teresa wrote on May 29, 2008 6:48 PM:

    " I cant believe any one is standing up for Ideal. They know within a matter of moments what kind of credit the customer has. Instead of being honest they deserve to stroke them along for a week or so and then call with the news that give us more money down, or pay rental fees and bring it back. They so deserve all the negatives written about them. "

    TO ALL WHO HAVE NO NAMES wrote on May 29, 2008 6:46 PM:

    " HI TO YOU ALL HATERS. MY NAME IS TAMMY GRIMM AND I WORK AT IDEAL CARS, IN THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT. BOTTOM LINE IS YOU ALL SHOULD JUST COME IN HERE AND SEE HOW COMMITED WE ARE TO OUR COSTUMERS, MILITARY OR CIVILIAN. WE VALUE EACH AND EVERY COSTUMER THAT WALKS IN HERE WITH GREAT, GOOD OR BAD CREDIT. WE TREAT EVERY COSTUMER WITH RESPECT AND I AM SORRY THAT WE ARE NOT "GOD". WHY DON'T PEOPLE READ DOCUMENTS THAT THEY SIGN JUST LIKE THEY LOVE READING UP ON GOSSIP IN THIS ARTICLE. "

    Show support wrote on May 29, 2008 6:32 PM:

    " I also know the Johnstons and the employees and do know that they would do more then most people in this town, just as they did for Paul. Rick and Beau did not have to help him. Talk all the bad you want, it is not their fault that people look for any killer deal they can get and then cry when it doesnt go their way. Military or not, grow up and realize you get yourself into your own messes! "

    refund wrote on May 29, 2008 6:14 PM:

    " Steve i am sure that if ideal has 700 dollars of your kid's money that there is one really good reason, and maybe if you and your kids went in and actually talked to the owner i am sure that this would be resolved. I can reasure you that dealerships are not in the buisness to keep peoples money for no reason. MAN UP! "

    Check it out wrote on May 29, 2008 6:08 PM:

    " If you go to BBB.org, you will see similar numbers for all the dealerships in town. 10 complaints against Donovan 19 total between all of Lawleys. Every dealership has its share of happy and mad customers. It is the customers responsability to read what they sign and be confident in what they do. Just because you dont get the deal you want doesnt mean you have the right to cry foul. I have purchased from both Lawley and Ideal and have my own kudos and complaints about each.Ideal stood by what they said whereas Lawley didnt. "

    dealerships wrote on May 29, 2008 5:37 PM:

    " We all have purchased cars and wondered if we got the best deal or if we got taken to the cleaners.A common denominator here is that all of the unhappy folks have bad credit; bad credit leads to bad rates and getting penalized by the LENDERS for being HIGH RISK!You're lucky to be driving anything, let alone getting the same loan as mine! The fact is, you've said nothing that convinces me to go elsewhere. You're just a reminder that contracts are legal docs and credit score is a big deal to BANKS. "

    STAFF SGT wrote on May 29, 2008 5:18 PM:

    " I have done buisness with IDEAL and i was very pleased with the outcome.I am sure that it is hard in buisness to make everyone happy, and it is very easy to sit back and point the blame. People in general should be cautious in life period no matter what they are doing and realize that not everything in life is perfect and if we as human beings are not allowed to make any mistakes then, we should all stay home and lock the doors!!! "

    PAUL HAINS wrote on May 29, 2008 5:18 PM:

    " I WORK FOR IDEAL. I WAS INJURED 2 YRS AGO, COULDN'T WORK FOR FIVE MONTHS. WHEN MY SAVINGS WAS GONE, ME AND MY WIFE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO. FOR THE NEXT FOUR AND A HALF MONTHS I WAS OFF WORK, THE JOHNSTONS PAID ALL OF MY BILLS INCLUDING HOUSE PAYMENT AND CAR PAYMENT AND STOCKED MY REFRIGERATOR. WHEN I WENT TO PAY THEM BACK, THEY WOULD'NT TAKE THE MONEY. ANYBODY WHO READS THIS IF U HAVE SOMETHING NICE TO SAY U NEED TO SAY IT. LETS NOT FORGET ALL THE COMMUNITY DONATIONS THE JOHNSTONS MAKE. "

    mary wrote on May 29, 2008 5:15 PM:

    " try and be more considerat they did nothing wrong "

    Murphy wrote on May 29, 2008 5:06 PM:

    " This is terrible that the military can control soldiers where to go and do business off base. If your employer ordered a business off limits would you think its fair? Soldiers are babysat and controlled as if they cant think for themselves. We all civilians don't need to be controlled that way. What makes it so for the troops? "

    not there fault its army people wrote on May 29, 2008 5:05 PM:

    " how about the military lady that went to the dealership and lied about being in the army still, she was being booted out, she bought a car, and took off to LA, bank verfied her job she didnt have one, is post helping them to get there car back nope. in fact sv pd wont do anything about it...... "

    paul wrote on May 29, 2008 4:59 PM:

    " You people are stupid, dealers sell the cars, the banks buy the deals..Banks are the ones the dictate how much you can buy according to your credit. If you have bad credit, you probably arent gonna pay. banks will only finace a certain amount to value, so how is it you get a bad deal...you guys need a one dee ten t form. "

    A happy customer from the past wrote on May 29, 2008 4:59 PM:

    " It sadden me to read this article. I have dealt with the owner of Ideal on several deals. In fact, over the years I probably purchased 12 vehicles from him and never had a problem. Family members have purchased vehicles from him as well. Being in business, you can never keep everyone happy. A soldier can fight for our country but cannot handle his or her own finances. There are so many variables to consider as well. Owning a business and dealing with the public are not easy. A customer does have the right to say No! "

    Local Biz Owner wrote on May 29, 2008 4:50 PM:

    " As a business owner, it is difficult to insure integrity from your employees. This is an opportunity for Ideal Auto to become a better business and integrate themselves more with the community - mainly the base. I do remember, however, Ideal Auto sponsoring the Toys for Tots drive during Christmas. It is sad that those soldiers defending our country aren't savvy enough to understand what they are getting themselves into. No wonder the war in Irag keeps going... and going... and going... "

    Jawn Arthur wrote on May 29, 2008 4:39 PM:

    " Funny thing when you go to get a credit card, they run a check on your credit on the spot. I guess that kind of 'computer' technology has filtered down to SV. Every other dealership will run a report and finance knows what's happening on the spot. Have a good time with this website before you buy: beatthecarsalesman.com you will thank me later. "

    concerned wrote on May 29, 2008 4:37 PM:

    " It seems to me that the military should be trying to work with the dealership or any other buisness that they may have a concern with.I am concerned that other buisness may be put in similiar situations without the ability to properly respond or defend there actions.I wonder how the military would feel if all the buisness in sierra vista simply decided that they did not want to do buisness with them due to the fact that alot of there soldiers do not pay there bills, write bad checks and run around town acting like fools. "

    Franklin G. wrote on May 29, 2008 4:24 PM:

    " I've read the article through front to back and still cant see any reason to do this to Ideal. I bought a vehicle from Ideal within the last year, and I'm sorry but whatever negative comments I've heard sound more like comments from a rival dealership and their employees then from anyone real. I am a Veteran of our United States Air Force, a Vietnam era veteran, and I have been treated like a king at Ideal. I got a great car at a great price, period. I will buy from them again. "

    Molon Labe wrote on May 29, 2008 4:03 PM:

    "

    http://www.svherald.com/articles/2007/0
    4/05/local_news/news3.txt
    Published on Thursday, April 05, 2007
    Herald/Review

    BISBEE — The owner of a local car dealership has been indicted by a Cochise County grand jury on charges that he knowingly possessed a stolen tractor.
    According to the indictment returned March 15, Wellington “Beau” Johnston, 33, owner of the Ideal Automotive Group dealership in Sierra Vista, knowingly controlled a stolen 2004 John Deere tractor/excavator belonging to AMS Construction "

    curious wrote on May 29, 2008 4:01 PM:

    " Like I tell all the people who work for me - when you go into a car dealership you must even the playing field by leaving all your ethics and morals at home because your certainly not dealing with anybody in a car dealership that has any. "

    LB wrote on May 29, 2008 3:58 PM:

    " I am just amazed at all of the "bashing" going on. Obviously no thought is going on here from the negative reactions about this article. How about thinking about the importance of maintaining your financial responsibility? How about going in educated & prepared, knowing what you can afford and what you shouldn't even try to buy? What's wrong with everyone? No babysitting or whining allowed. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. It's that simple. "

    Jo wrote on May 29, 2008 3:17 PM:

    " They did something similar to me years ago, and I did not have bad credit. Since when is it the customer's fault when a business does shady deals? If you think customers got what they deserved because they were stupid enough to get swindled, why do we even have a better business bureau? What ever happened to good business practices? "

    hahaha wrote on May 29, 2008 3:11 PM:

    " I always thought Ideal was less than perfect. I cant believe they would rip so many people off, especially our military people. They did not want to help people out, just looking for easy targets. Yes it is true some people have less than good credit, but dont tell me Ideal did not know this ahead of time. Just one of their tricks to get you in a car and then a week later call and tell you that the interest rate and your payment both went up, and if you dont want the car you dont get your downpayment "

    Good Decision wrote on May 29, 2008 2:40 PM:

    " Has anyone bothered to look for criminal charges filed with the police? For Ideal Automotive to hide behind a curtain of "helping people" amounts to a pick-pocket "relieving you of the burdon of the extra weight" when stealing your wallet. "

    Its happens everywhere wrote on May 29, 2008 2:17 PM:

    " It's an old scam. It happened to me at a dealership here in SV. Exact same thing. 'Sold' me the car on Friday for a certain price/interest rate/payments. They 'let' me take the car home over the weekend. Then Monday 'oh, we're sorry, but we can't get you those payments.' They tried to tell me they couldn't take the car back because it was now 'used.' I told them it was their tough luck and they could sell at the terms we agreed or they could take it back. I got my terms. Buyer beware and know your rights. "

    Know The Truth Part Three wrote on May 29, 2008 2:07 PM:

    " (CONTINUED)..charge the customer about $45 per DAY, PLUS around 50 cents a mile. So, if the customer has the car for 20 days and puts on about 1,000 miles, Ideal will charge them $1,400.00, and THEN the customer is without a car because oftentimes, Ideal has already sold or disposed of their trade-in, which is not exactly kosher, since the deal was not completely finalized. "

    Know The Truth Part wrote on May 29, 2008 2:03 PM:

    " (CONTINUED)..the interest rate gets jacked up to 18%. That's just the first part of it. What folks don't realize is that during this 20 day time frame, and until financing is secure, this new car they bought is, for all intents and purposes, considered a RENTAL VEHICLE, and there is a little slip of paper in the contract indicating this. So, IF the customer wants to walk away from the deal because the dealer cannot secure financing at the rate indicated in the original contract, then Ideal can, and usually does, (MORE TO FOLLOW)..... "

    Know The Truth wrote on May 29, 2008 1:59 PM:

    " I'm VERY familiar with the complaints against Ideal and it's MORE than just people not reading their contract! It's a tactic where they have the customer sign a 9% finance rate knowing full well that it's not going to happen because the client's creditworthiness isn't that great. Then, after 20 or 25 days, AFTER the customer has traded their old car in, Ideal calls and says that in order for them to keep the car, they need to come up with an extra $500 or $1,000, and (MORE TO FOLLOW)..... "

    Steve in SV wrote on May 29, 2008 1:34 PM:

    " well Heidi them ya might want to rethink who ya know and hang out with. I'm not denying my kids have less then stellar credit and because of that there are consequences, like higher interest rates. But when ya walk from the deal and they refuse to give you back your deposit that is just plain wrong. The owner, the sales manager and the salesman have repeatedly refused to refund thier deposit. These folks prey on people, they have no scruples and are getting what they deserve. "

    get what you give wrote on May 29, 2008 1:16 PM:

    " You mean to tell me that finance has no idea that a person has poor credit before they sign papers??? Give me a break were we all born yesterday!! This business has performed underhanded practices to everyone in SV not just military.This goes to show what goes around comes around....Go look at thier homes and cars tell me who is getting the $$$$$ "

    Trevor wrote on May 29, 2008 1:13 PM:

    " Ideal is really shady and I can't believe it took the military that long to ban then. "

    HA HA wrote on May 29, 2008 12:38 PM:

    " Small town and word of mouth..they are finally going down! KARMA! "

    Dissapointed wrote on May 29, 2008 12:09 PM:

    " I would just like to say that I personally know the Johnstons and their is nothing that they wouldnt do to help a deserving soul. I hope all of the citizens in Sierra Vista are happy with the monoploistic environment you are creating for your children. I am a very optomisitic person and like to wish for the best in people however, "the kick them while they are down" idea in this case is sickening. Everyone needs to learn how to take responsibilty for their own actions before we land in a true Idocracy, starting in Sierra Vista. "

    Jeremy wrote on May 29, 2008 11:53 AM:

    " This is well deserved, and although the explanation is a bit foggy, I am sure there are bigger issues. "

    Sharon Foster-Baldwin wrote on May 29, 2008 11:53 AM:

    " This is good that the military is coming down on these car dealerships that are ripping military families off. "

    NWH wrote on May 29, 2008 11:25 AM:

    " Here is the link to these Less-than-Ideal, people.
    http://tucson.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=72&bbb=1286&firm=23016
    The BBB processed a total of 14 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period.Of the total of 14 complaints closed in 36 months, 2 were closed in the last year. "

    Brad Rudkin wrote on May 29, 2008 11:17 AM:

    " p.s. It always amazes me the indignant attitude crappy credit customers display when they get an opportunity to drive again after blowing off all the other creditors they have in the past. That is how they get to this position in the first place. It actually has nothing to do with the dealership or any dealership. Why should anyone complain about the interest rate or payment. The record shows they probably won't pay it anyway. NUMBERS DON"T LIE! "

    NWH wrote on May 29, 2008 11:12 AM:

    " "And, to ensure everyone understands what is happening, voice and video recordings of transactions are being done, he added."
    If you have to be Recorded and Video Taped, then YOU sure as HECK don't need to do Business with Them, Period! If you don't know whatyou're doing when you buy a car,have the post Financial office help, or go on line. "

    Brad Rudkin wrote on May 29, 2008 11:10 AM:

    " What a bunch of whiners. As a ten year veteran in the car business, I have often wondered why people with poor credit lay down their money, joyride a car for however many days they feel like it and expect a dealership to refund their money. PUNT!
    My dealings with the Johnston's in the past were not always the best on a personal or business level, but Ideal is in business to profit as they should. When your credit blows, you should be happy to be driving. GROW UP WHINERS! "

    SVMom wrote on May 29, 2008 11:00 AM:

    " This is fantastic. I have never dealt with this dealership in town...but I have heard stories from friends. I am proud of the way the fort handled it. It shows that this command truly cares about its soldiers and other service members. A business without ethics and only worried about their bottom line $$$$, should be ostracized. "

    Kelly M Place wrote on May 29, 2008 10:58 AM:

    " I think its pretty obvious that these are just the comments of the day you will all hide behind because you are to afraid to take responsibility for “your family members” or “your own” inability to handle your finances properly. Sure you can blame it on Ideal, or the mortgage company that scammed you in to a variable rate, or the doctors office that mixed up your insurance coverage, or the waitress who messed up your dinner order last night…it wont matter. "

    Kelly M Place wrote on May 29, 2008 10:54 AM:

    " Wow….everyone sure has a lot to say this morning “anonymously”. I find it hard to believe that so many people have accusations to make but have no desire to stand proud in the voice they want us to hear. Give me a break people!! I think its funny how you all feel so adamantly that someone has screwed you, yet you don’t believe in your own grievance enough to state your name. "

    Not Surprised wrote on May 29, 2008 10:47 AM:

    " A couple years ago, my friend traded-in a car. A week or so later, Ideal called back saying he wasn't approved for the car, but the car he traded-in was gone. He had no choice but to downgrade to another car. "

    Mike wrote on May 29, 2008 10:19 AM:

    " We bought a vehicle from a different dealer with all the discounts and filled in all the lines even the down payment line and when questioned about it we were told don't worry about it, that just shows again all the discounts, one month to the day they call us and want their down payment, I explained we didn't owe anything and even went in and talked to some customer relation lady and proved an employee lied but she didn't care we signed and they had us even though the boss knew an employee LIED "

    I wish wrote on May 29, 2008 10:18 AM:

    " I wish I'd known this 3 months ago when I got stuck with a lemon of a used from them. If I had, I would have gone else where. "

    SUZZIE wrote on May 29, 2008 10:14 AM:

    " I THINK IT IS FUNNY HOW THEY DON'T PUT THE MILITARY BEING BANNED OUT OF BARS BECAUSE OF VIOLENCE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NEWSPAPER!!! "

    thankfully wrote on May 29, 2008 10:10 AM:

    " It's about time someone held this company accountable. I have heard nothing but horror stories from people dealing with them. They prey on people with bad credit that have no options for recourse. "

    joe in SV wrote on May 29, 2008 10:08 AM:

    " predatory lending from dealerships near military bases is nothing new and I am glad that the dealerships in SV are finally being put off limits. Anyway the dealerships in SV are overpriced and have limited selection when you compare them to Tucson or Phoenix dealerships. We bought both of our new cars in Tucson where we found almost a 3000 price difference between the prices here in SV. Finally the local SV dealerships have been put on notice. Hopefully they will clean up their act, but I doubt it "

    HATER wrote on May 29, 2008 10:05 AM:

    " I BOUGHT FROM IDEAL ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO, THEY HAD ME SIGN THE CONTRACT WITHOUT MY TRADE. THEY TOLD ME THAT I "WAS IS IN IT RIGHT" AND TO JUST LET THE "OTHER" FINANCE COMPANY HAVE IT BACK.. "THEY'LL GET WHAT YOU OWE ON IT AT AUCTION, AND EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY!". ahhahahaha! I WAS SCREWED... GOT A BILL FROM THE "OTHER" FINANCE COMPANY FOR $7000! I SHOULD HAVE WENT WITH MY GUT FEELING, BUT INSTEAD PUT MY TRUST IN THEM! DON'T LIFT THEIR "OFF-LIMIT ORDER"!!! "

    SHAWN wrote on May 29, 2008 9:49 AM:

    " Man, all you people gang up on Ideal even though they have been in sierra vista longer than any other dealership. does anyone think that they agreed to numbers. and signed a contract. who's fault should that be. huh? but they probably drugged you or somethin else. and the military is comprised of a bunch of babies that need to grow up and realize that there are consequences when you sign something. you actualy have to pay for it. boo hoo. and if the cars are so bad, why would you buy one there. some on now. "

    Fruit Loops wrote on May 29, 2008 9:47 AM:

    " My personal experience was positive they couldn't meet our needs so the salesman said "Have a nice day and come back again" On the other hand the "other" big dealership has sold us a lemon and their "mechanics" can't fix it. Moral of the story? Buy a good used car from your cousin or your friend. (Sarcasm folks lol) "

    Chris S. wrote on May 29, 2008 9:46 AM:

    " I'm glad to see they are off-limits to soldiers. Now if only there were a way to ban civilians from purchasing vehicles from there...that'd be great. This is one dealership I wouldn't mind seeing go under. As a prior customer, I've had nothing but problems from them anytime I've been on that lot. Purchasing a car or not. Shady dealers, shady financial planners, shady business ethics...that's gotta tell you something. "

    CM wrote on May 29, 2008 9:43 AM:

    " Not able to sell/provide service to military folks in a military town for at least 90 days? Dead man walking! I predict half the employees will hang around for their next check and then quit. And I think a new location for a the local farmers market just became available - those work bays will make excellent shaded stalls for our hardworking produce providers. Welcome to Ideal Produce - may we interest you in some fresh lemons? Hey Ideal, Mitsubishi is calling - they want their reputation back! "

    All the Same wrote on May 29, 2008 9:39 AM:

    " The service side is pretty good. On the other hand, the sales side tried to sell me a 13,000 mile auction vehicle for $1k more than full retail value of a new model of the same car. It was easy to say no and walk away. "

    WOW wrote on May 29, 2008 9:19 AM:

    " This is the fastest I've seen so many responses to an article! :) But well deserved. I know too many people who have been ripped off by this dealership. The biggest problem is really quite simple to fix, don't give someone the keys until the paper work is completed. However, that's not the only problem they've had. There have been other issues that I won't go into here. "

    azdave wrote on May 29, 2008 8:53 AM:

    " To Wow: Not sure why you're surprised that it took so long to get to the relevant information. I've lived in Sierra Vista for six years and in all that time I've seen exactly one Bill Hess article that was coherently written. The Herald has some fine writers, but Hess isn't one of them. "

    The Flores Family wrote on May 29, 2008 8:50 AM:

    " Finally getting what they deserve. They should be ashamed of the way they have conducted their business in this community. "

    Deb in SV wrote on May 29, 2008 8:50 AM:

    " As adults we need to be well informed and make educated decisions. A vehicle purchase is a pretty big thing! people tend to treat it like purchasing the latest cell phone this week! I bought both my vehicles there. They were great with me, very professional. Maybe because I went prepared.For A fact almost all dealerships have similar sales tactics even in this town. We all could be commenting on someone else today.Lets hope they will learn from mistakes like we all have to!Sorry to anyone who got burned "Buisness Is Buisness" Lets be wiser friends!!! "

    original sierravistan wrote on May 29, 2008 8:49 AM:

    " There are other business using the same tactics in town as Ideal. With these "payday advance and rush bucks" type businesses that are currently ripping off our soldiers also. These types of money hungry businesses needs to be placed off limits also. "

    Heidi wrote on May 29, 2008 8:48 AM:

    " I think this is ridiculous. I have known these people for almost 30 years and this is ludicris. If the deals went bad it was because the customer had bad credit and that is what changed the deal. So maybe the customers should man up for their own credit troubles that result in their original deal not going through. It's not the dealerships fault it is your own. Take responsibility for your own troubles & quit blaming others. "

    Dissappointed in Fort wrote on May 29, 2008 8:28 AM:

    " This is sad, people are not taking responsiblility for what they agree to. I have alway been helped, it may take awhile, but I READ all the contracts that I sign and make sure that everything is clear! Just because half of these dolts can't be responsible for their own bills, I had issues and called them and they helped me out! You go to any dealership around the world you will hear complaints and people saying they are crooked. The fort just focused on Ideal because they don't get pushed around! "

    Hereford wrote on May 29, 2008 8:26 AM:

    " Thank you so much MG Custer! I'm glad it has been brought to light. They are finally getting what has been coming to them- the other dealerships in town are probably grinning from ear to ear reading this as this means more business for them. Thank you MG Custer and thank you SV Herald for publishing this story! "

    Josh V. wrote on May 29, 2008 8:19 AM:

    " It is great to see Gen. Custer and those folks on the fort holding this business accountable for its shady practices. I encourage the non-military community to boycott this business for exploiting our young soldiers! "

    wow wrote on May 29, 2008 8:06 AM:

    " Amazing!! It took this long to figure this out!! I found ou how Ideal Mr. Johnston was 5 Years AGO!!LOL!! "

    Steve in SV wrote on May 29, 2008 7:55 AM:

    " It's about time - they ripped off my son in law and daughter a few months back. they are young and have less then stellar credit. They were guarenteed a car and financing at 9%. final paperwok came back at 18% - they walked and these people refuse and still refuse to give them back their deposit of 700 dollars. Their only recourse is legal action and how many young couples have money for a lawyer -I hope in the end these people get what they deserve. "

    gary wrote on May 29, 2008 7:54 AM:

    " wow, i been to a few different mitsubishi dealerships around the country, and i always considered ideal to have better service than most, although in tucson after any service they give a car wash and quick detail. "

    Mae wrote on May 29, 2008 7:48 AM:

    " this comes as so surprise to me because about 5 years ago when my daughter was a senior in high school she took a car that was licensed in both our names to trade in without my knowledge until midnight before she was supposed to pick up the different car. I called Ideal first thing in the morning to tell them I would not sign off on the trade in car, they said fine, we file for a deserted title and take it to Mexico which is what they must have done as I never signed off but never gotitback. "

    itsabouttime wrote on May 29, 2008 7:46 AM:

    " Ideal has been messing with not just military personal if you buy a used car people should really look at it because 9 times out of 10 its not CLEAN. "

    A Good Decision wrote on May 29, 2008 7:37 AM:

    " I think it's a great move by the Fort to ban this establishment. When you keep hearing dozens of similar tales, perhaps there is truth to them after all? I'm sure public records searches could find out lots of interesting things... "

    concerned wrote on May 29, 2008 7:18 AM:

    " I know the guys at ideal. yes they do very shady deals. Just because you can convince a less intelligent buyer, that doesnt mean you should. I hope this hurts their business "

    Chris T. wrote on May 29, 2008 7:15 AM:

    " I like the banner add across the top of the main page on the Herald. "

    Finally wrote on May 29, 2008 7:15 AM:

    " I am glad someone finally called Ideal on there shadey business dealings, they are not the only ones. They do this with all customers, not just military. There are otehr car sellers who change your gross income so they can get you into a car. I know this for a fact. I am a former customer of IDEAL, trying to get our of my rotten deal. "

    KA wrote on May 29, 2008 7:08 AM:

    " Gee, Ideal got into trouble because they are just too nice and wanted to get people into cars that didn't have good credit. Sounds like someone isn't taking responsibility for their actions!! Considering that the military doesn't do "off-limits" often, I would say that Ideal really messed up! "

    Wow wrote on May 29, 2008 7:05 AM:

    " You sure took a long time to tell us why in your article. Trying to stretch it out? Really, you just kept repeating yourself by saying, "off limits". Get to the point. It gets annoying. Really, you just kept repeating yourself by saying, "off limits". Get to the point. It gets annoying. Really, you just kept repeating yourself by saying, "off limits". Get to the point. It gets annoying. Really, you just kept repeating yourself by saying, "off limits". Get to the point. It gets annoying. "

    Got Robbed wrote on May 29, 2008 6:53 AM:

    " This doesn't surprise me at all. Hopefully, this negative publicity will put them out of business in Sierra Vista "

    also cheated wrote on May 29, 2008 6:32 AM:

    " It's about time! But aren't most of the used car lots in this town really owned by one of the new car dealerships? "

    Consumer wrote on May 29, 2008 6:20 AM:

    " I encountered this outfit 18 months ago shopping for a small vehicle. I must have looked like the first turnip that fell off the truck, because the sales guy, laden with lots of bling prepared a handwritten "pre-sales contract" to serve as a firm agreement to buy until the sales guy could "consult" with the "boss." I declined and instead asked the guy to get an agreement to the price I had offered ... or not. Five minutes later, the "boss" tried to strong arm me: "We can't give you a firm quote without your "pre-sales contract." I walked. "

    Burned Ideal Customer wrote on May 29, 2008 6:14 AM:

    " It's about time! I've had to grovel to that dealership in the past, only to have false promises and shady salesmen that left me with a miserable experience. Remember the Daewoo fiasco? I bought one a week before their bankruptcy was publicly announced - something I am SURE the dealership knew in advance. Maybe why they slammed me into one at the time, huh? "Caveat emptor" with this dealership - let the buyer beware! "

    Question wrote on May 29, 2008 5:57 AM:

    " Isn't Ideal a owned by a major dealer in SV? This article doesn't say who owns it, or where it is located. "

    Fed Up wrote on May 29, 2008 5:53 AM:

    " ITS ABOUT TIME!!! "

Community Videos



Additional recent videos can be viewed here


Use the arrows on each side of the player to for the next/previous video

Lastest U.S. Videos


In Tomorrow's Herald


Research ahead: UA teacher heads to Chile as part of program to help improve deaf education.

Subscribe Today!

Photo Galleries

Contact Us


Staff Directory

Advertisement




Reader Poll



Calendar

Upcoming Events:

Faith and Spirituality