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30 percent of SV schools instruction budget used for special ed

By Ted Morris
Herald/Review
Published/Last Modified on Friday, Mar 07, 2008 - 03:28:20 pm MST

SIERRA VISTA — Special-education students comprise 13 percent of the 6,168 enrollees in the city’s public schools.

These students currently consume about 30 percent of the instructional budget. While the number of special education students is increasing, finite resources are not.

The federal government provides the bulk of funding for special education, through what is known as a 220 Grant, said Rob Dillon, Sierra Vista public schools’ pupil personnel services director. He oversees special education, English language learning, gifted programs, nursing staff, psychologists, occupational and physical therapists and other staff.

Dillon presented the topic at Thursday’s meeting of the Financial Advisory Committee, which the governing board established in January to provide the public with greater transparency to the inner workings of the district’s $38.5 million annual budget.



For fiscal year 2008, which will end June 30, the Sierra Vista school district received $1,279,898.64 from the 220 Grant, Dillon said. This funding has plateaued for several years, and he said there is a growing gap between federal and state funding.

There were 770 special-education students last year. There are 820 this year. Most of those students — 550 of them — are classified as learning-disabled.

The operation of providing services for special-ed students is “quite expensive,” Dillon noted.

The 220 Grant mainly provides staffing for the school district, paying the salaries of 70 paraprofessionals who are serving in all nine of the Sierra Vista public school buildings.

The growing need for special education was illustrated by school board member Hal Thomas, who said 20 years ago autism was reported in one out of 1,000 children. Today that number is 1 in 150.

“That’s a pretty serious impact on a school system,” Thomas said.

Dillon added, “And we have to provide the resources that we can.”

Panel member John Skarhus, a local teacher and the representative of the Sierra Vista Education Association, said, “We have to deal with what is.”

Committee member Jacqueline O’Connor opened up a debate on the subject.

“I want to know where the money goes,” she said, “and I want to know what the money accomplishes. And if you tell me 30 percent of your budget goes to people who will never be — or probably most of them will never be — you know, a taxpaying individual, well I think we need to rethink that.”

She acknowledged that professionals such as Dillon must obey the dictates of the federal and state governments, “but I think those of us who are outside the system ought to be able to say, ‘Some of these things need to be changed …’ ”

Dillon responded, “I’ll take exception to that in this way. Most of those individuals will be taxpayers, because the largest group are those that fall in the area of learning disabilities.

“Most of those do make significant strides in their lives,” said Dillon, who has taught special-ed students in the classroom at all three levels. “… those folks are in the area of average intelligence … they certainly comprise the large majority of that group. So, most of the time, well above 90 percent, those folks are productive members of society.”

“So they’re not going to wash out of the system,” O’Connor said.

“No they’re not,” Dillon said. “And neither do we want them to.”

O’Connor continued, “But when we look at what we’re competing with around the world, our system is so broken, taking care of everybody who crawls up to the door, and, I’m sorry, there are choices that need to be made …”

Dillon said, “My job is to do the best we can with the resources we have, and I think that we do well in that way.”

He is proud of the fact that there is an increasingly smaller number of learning-disabled students who drop out of high school.

He reminded the committee that “when they leave, the funding leaves with them. That’s a significant cost to us.”

Not only are the drop-outs a moral and ethical quandary for the school district, but these students will still become a burden to taxpayers through the criminal-justice system and other areas if education fails.

The committee learned that special-education students carry a higher weighting factor in the Average Daily Membership, or ADM, which the Arizona Department of Education uses to formulate and distribute funding to school districts.

While a regular student might count as 1.0 in the ADM, a child with multiple disabilities might be weighted as much as 4.5, depending on the resources that are needed to educate the child.

District Business Manager Michelle Quiroz said the highest-weighted special-ed student is almost eight times the “normal” student.

“Gotta pour a lot of money on it,” Thomas said, regarding some of the special-education cases.

Later in the discussion, committee member Lee Knaeble shared a story about government mandates. He remembered attending a one-room schoolhouse in northern Minnesota during the 1940s, and when the government ordered hot lunches to be served, the school came up with the answer. In this particular part of the state, north of Bemidji, where temperatures can plunge to minus-40 degrees Fahrenheit, the old schoolhouse had a stove in one corner of the room. A large empty metal dish pan was set on the stove, and when students brought their lunches to school, they set them in the pan. Voila! Hot lunches were served, Knaeble said.

herald/review City Editor Ted Morris can be reached at 515-4614 or by e-mail at cityeditor@svherald.com.



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    Tom Vincent wrote on Jan 30, 2009 2:30 PM:

    " What a waste of resources to use a huge amount of money to bring a comparative few students up to a "normal" level. How can we justify the added expense at the expense of the "normal or gofted students? No wonder America is falling so far behind in Education. I believe that the average student needs an advocate to speak up for them and the services they are being denied! Talk about fape. "

    Good Try wrote on Mar 21, 2008 7:40 PM:

    " Mr. Dillon's article was misleading. Only Federal funding was provided, State funding was somehow forgoten thus implying that the district only has the Federal funding to use for special education. The district knows exactly what the funding is and exactly what percent of the budget that is as well as what they spend. It isn't that complicated. Maybe they don't want us to know the total funding. This is but another example of how the district deals with the public. They consistanly tell only the part of the story that supports thier constant claim of underfunding and complaints about mandates. "

    Why? wrote on Mar 21, 2008 12:14 PM:

    " Rob Dillon's 3/21 article is informative if misleading. Dillon questions the 30% figure mentioned in previous articles indicating he does not have this information without consulting with the Business Office to determine the percentage. This has never been calculated before? No Board or staff member ever inquired before? Why? Because no one in education has a cost-benefit frame of reference.

    The 30% figure was given by the Business Manager and Board members at last Fall's public meetings on school budgeting and repeated at FAC meetings without challenge or qualification. Why? Always "why". "

    amused parapro wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:04 AM:

    " I find the idea of judging a Special Ed kid's worth by whether or not they'll become "tax-paying citizens" to be rather amusing... I work as a parapro for Sierra Vista Public Schools - but don't make enough income to pay taxes, either. "

    Styx wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:51 PM:

    " It is a sad commentary on our society that most of the people who responded have no compassion for those born with a bit less than the rest of us. Are those who will never contribute to the "tax base" worthless? Sick...you are sick. "

    Why Have A PIO wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:44 PM:

    " The comments on this and other items related to the district budget have been going on for weeks and weeks. Why hasn't the district made use of the PIO to put out a detailed explanation for some of these controversies? If all you can use the PIO for is to gin up pretty pages in Friday's paper about field trips, school activites and trivia why have one. A PIO should be used to inform the public on all improtant things including budget controversies, tell the district side of the story. If not, get rid of the position, save the money. "

    Susan wrote on Mar 20, 2008 12:14 PM:

    " My son has a higher than average IQ, but requires a mainstreamed classroom with a special ed teacher there to assist him, as well as several others that just need a little extra help. These kids are learning HOW they learn, and learning how to advocate for themselves, as important as the 3R's.
    I would suggest to all that think special ed is for kids who will 'never amount to anything' or 'contribute to the tax base' that they go see a classroom, see the kids participating. I'll bet you can't tell which kid's which! "

    not more excuses please wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:57 AM:

    " Someone (former teacher) on the other school article that just scrolled off mentioned that much of the "needed" extra staff may just be the "good ole boy" network/nepotism. A real sad commentary for our local school system. You can check that story and comments here:

    http://www.svherald.com/articles/2008/03/05/news/doc47ce3e5b59c80823742146.txt "

    L. Rautanen wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:25 AM:

    " How much did it cost to have three para professionals take a small bus load of "special needs" students to Big Lots last week? I was told by one of the paraprofessionals that they take a shopping trip once a week. The purpose? From the outside looking in on those students, they were severely disabled and would not be within the 90% of the students who fit the bill of a potential tax payer. "

    Nomad wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:49 PM:

    " Well, this controversy serves some purpose. People are paying attention and discussing issues important to the next generation which must cope with globalization and a declining American economy with declines in quality of life forcasted. Now, if some people will begin to attend Board meetings and asking questions, we might have a chance to open up this closed system which consumes almost 60% of the state's general fund (and that represents only about half of educational revenues. Another 40% comes from local sources mostly property taxes, and 10% from the Feds).
    Remember: 3 seats open this November. "

    Jacqueline O'Connor wrote on Mar 19, 2008 11:41 PM:

    " I made the remark about "crawling up to the front door" right after someone told us that aides were provided in the classroom because, among other things, some special ed students couldn't go to the bathroom alone. Sounds harsh, I realize, but with 156 employees for 820 special ed students--everything from psychologists to speech therapists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, and oh yes, teachers and administrative support--I was shocked. Yes, these young people need education and care, but I do question the cost and what effect it has on the mainstream students' opportunities. "

    U Forget the Obvious wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:12 PM:

    " Susan wrote:

    " I would remind her that the following people have been, or would have been, Special Ed eligible: ..."

    Susan, you left out the most obvious example of someone who suffers from a severe mental disability and yet has who risen to great heights: the president of these great United States!
    "

    Don't lay that on me wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:36 PM:

    " The special eds will go on to be taxpaying citizens? Hey you don't pay taxes if you are in a low income bracket. "

    If So- it may be wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:07 PM:

    " If it is fair to spend 3 times the funding per head for special education students at the expense of the other students, then it is fair to demand the district pay for how it has implemented these programs and live within its budget, paying for everything they think has to be provided and not ask for another override. Laws may require special education be provided for the learning disabled and other handicaps, but don't tell me the district has no lee way in how they do it or that they have to provide more than necessary. "

    Home grown wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:01 PM:

    " "Susan" many of those great people didn't need special education or disproportionate spending to educate themselves. All of them had strong parents that raised them with the discipline to think for themselves and rise above their learning disabilities. We can't expect to bankrupt our education system to fund a disproportionate amount on a few. All students deserve the same amount of funds for education. "

    Susan wrote on Mar 19, 2008 5:46 PM:

    " Regarding Ms. O’Connor's comments about caring for "everyone that crawls up to the door", and competing in a global economy, I would remind her that the following people have been, or would have been, Special Ed eligible: Bell, Carnegie, Charles (Prince of England), Churchill, Cosby, Disney, da Vinci, Edison, Einstein, Eisenhower, Franklin, Galileo, Gates (as in Bill!), Hearst, JFK, Lincoln, Motzart, Newton, Pasteur, Patton, Picasso, Rockefeller, Roosevelt, Socrates, Spielberg, Thoreau, Tolstoy, and thousands of others. By her standard we should quiz kids in kindergarten and weed out those likely to contribute less than average to society! "

    To Fritz wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:32 PM:

    " Good point. The Maintenance and Operations Budget (instructional budget as you called it) is $39 million, 30% of that is $11.7 million. Divided amoung 820 students is $14,268 per capita. The remaing $27.3 million spread among the remaining 5380 students (approxiamtely 6200 total - 820 Special Ed) provides $5,074 per student. So yes, even when applied to the real budget, the 13% that comprise the Special Education get three times the per capita funding as the remaining 87%. The District will have to tell us why that is necessary in detail. "

    it may be wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:33 AM:

    " It may be fair to spend a larger per capita amount on special ed kids if this means many of them will go on to be productive, taxpaying individuals. This amount that is being spent may help them learn to hold a job instead of living on social security and state welfare, which is far more costly in the long run. Some of these kids need the additional funds so they can have attention given to specific areas. "

    Fritz wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:50 PM:

    " The article fails to state the total amount of the instructional budget (although it does state that special ed is 30% of the total). Hypothetically assume that the total instructional budget is $20 million. 30% of $20M is $6 million - dividing that among 820 special ed students would provide $7317.07 per capita. Spreading the remaining $14 million among the 5496 students not in special ed would provide $2547.31 per capita. So 87% of the kids would get only about 1/3 the per capita education funding as the rest. Is this fair? "

    My Vote Counts wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:19 AM:

    " 3 board seats come up next election? Correct? Good. I will make my vote count by making sure I don't vote for the teachers union hacks. This board needs some fresh ideas and not self-serving ideas. "

    Independent wrote on Mar 16, 2008 10:41 PM:

    " "Enough" sees no need for a Finance Advisory Committee. I disagree! The Board cannot address all the areas of concern or interest. The fact that until now they have had only one other committee (Policy) which meets as needed says to me they want no advice--or interference from outsiders. That's arrogance. The FAC should become a permanent committee because the issues are important and challenges on-going. In addition, this is a good way to involve and inform the public, increase understanding and groom new board members. Staff will hate this, of course. "

    bob wrote on Mar 16, 2008 9:08 AM:

    " The schools need to allow an outside professional organization come in and analyze their processes to determine what needs to be made more efficient. But that will never happen because schools are the frontline of socialism in this country and the goal is to waste as much money as possible while teaching kids to be good democrats. "

    Won't Go Away wrote on Mar 15, 2008 3:20 PM:

    " Every child has the right to an education. The schools may be going overboard on classifying students with learning disabilities, but Special Education is not going away. The Feds provide funding, the state provides funding specifically for that. If there were no Special Education students, the district would not get extra state money for each student. This needs to be explained to the public other than just 30% of the budget: amount of Federal and State funding, what % of budget is that, and what the district spends versus funds provided. Might help calm folks down. "

    Transportation wrote on Mar 15, 2008 6:06 AM:

    " I believe all the shool buses are deisel. Deisel is now over $4 a gallon at Gas City. I know the district gets it for less than that but that price has had to also increase. Unless the price comes down transportation is going to be a budget issue. "Lets talk transportation" has a valid question. "

    Accountability needed wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:52 PM:

    " Perhaps the financial committee needs to focus on issues of real concern. Like the amount of employees in the district office. Secretaries have secretaries and the substitute coordinator makes an unbelieveable amount. Dr. Roach is making sure that he spends, spends, spends, and is making decisions that will affect next year's budget. He's making sure his areas are setting pretty for next year. Quit focusing on special ed students. They are worth our time and money!! "

    more info to come wrote on Mar 14, 2008 9:50 PM:

    " ESY focuses on critical learning skills that impact maintenance of educational benefit and loss of a Free Appropriate Public Education (FAPE). Critical learning skills may include communication skills, self-help skills, social-emotional skills, and motor skills. Loss of a specific academic or functional skill may not qualify a student for ESY services unless it results in loss of meaningful educational benefit.
    "

    Let talk transportation wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:31 PM:

    " How far from the school do you have to live to get bus service? "

    Well, this seems simple to me. wrote on Mar 14, 2008 5:29 AM:

    " It seems reasonable to me that schools should have a set, semi-flexible program for education and if children need anything more or less than that, the parents need to provide for that. What's wrong with that? This world isn't about providing special services for every special need. *Everyone* has a special need of some kind and it's simply ridiculous to expect the world to come to a screeching halt to cater to every one of those needs. I really have no idea why people seem to think we can't ask parents to fulfill their duties. "

    Hermit wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:37 PM:

    " Want to pay teachers better? Get rid of the transportation and food service (except for lunches). Since when does education include transporting, feeding and providing health care to kids. That's the parents' job, so let pay teachers better and allow an expansion of subjects and smaller class size. When did we become the surrogate parents? "

    Independent wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:31 PM:

    " Nor do they post the Board meetings on the calendar. And did you try to find anything about the superintendent search? They don't even always post their meeting agendas, because as Hal Thomas explained to me they don't have to, they post their agendas in the district office 24 hours in advance. This district needs to come into the 21st century and understand outreach to the public makes good sense and only meeting the minimum Open Meeting Law (24 hours notice) isn't good public relations. Remember, three Board positions are open this year. Change is needed. "

    Mike wrote on Mar 13, 2008 1:02 PM:

    " Mr. Skarhus,
    Perhaps you could get the person in charge of the SVPS web site on-line district calendar to add the Financial Advisory Committee meetings to the calendar. There is nothing currently posted.
    Thanks. "

    Observer wrote on Mar 12, 2008 2:24 PM:

    " The gnashing of teeth and flailing about over a disastrous social program unfortunately embedded in the public school system is, as a couple of posters pointed out, going nowhere. That's because special education is a clever euphemism that camouflages our failure to simultaneously care for the 'disadvantaged' and to educate the 'normal' population. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't the solution. That lies in totally revamping K-12 education with redefined goals and the methods of achieving them. Out of this should come the re-establishment of a excellent modern but separate institutional system for the 'disadvantaged.' "

    To Careful wrote on Mar 12, 2008 2:12 PM:

    " What school did they reopen after the overide passed? Bella Vista was rebuilt after the original structure was environmentally condemned. And that was opened PRIOR to the override vote. So what school are you refering to? "

    John Skarhus wrote on Mar 12, 2008 9:25 AM:

    " For all those who have opined in this section, both the financial advisory committee and the school board meetings are open to the public. As a member of the committe and a teacher in the district, I'm glad to see that so many people have an interest in quality education in our community. This debate about school funding is important. I look forward to seeing you at the next meeting. "

    Enough Already wrote on Mar 12, 2008 7:24 AM:

    " The creation of a Financial Advisory Committee was a waste of time. They have absolutely no authority. We already have a committee, it is called the School Board. If the citizens are not happy with the school board, we have elections every few years. The current board should stop being jerked around by citizens with axes to grind. The current board should do what they think is best and ignore the constant crying of every interest group that is unhappy! "

    Careful! wrote on Mar 12, 2008 6:04 AM:

    " Easy Jeff, you and Wondering are goring a sacred cow. They reopened a school after the override passed. Needed more classroom space for "increasing student growth" so class size could be kept small. Closing a school would shrink the empire, increase class size and just cause all sorts of problems. We may think it a good idea to get spending under control, but the district will flop around like they have been gravely wounded. Loudly labeling all not supporting thier ideal educational system and higher taxes to pay for it as ignorant and anti-education. "

    jeff r. wrote on Mar 11, 2008 8:04 PM:

    " Wondering” has a great idea about closing one school in the district. It would get more dollars in the classrooms. The “financial advisory committee” must consider closing one elementary school. Just think about all the administrative/maintenance and utilities costs it would save. The result would be more money for the teachers who do the hard work in educating our children. "

    To "She does not get it" wrote on Mar 10, 2008 6:43 PM:

    " So in your view only those that are familar with the laws that must be followed and have in depth finacial experience as well as a favorable view of the staus quo should be on a Finacial Committee. That means only the district insiders should be allowed to serve, the ones who know all the answers already and ask no questions to advance an unknow agenda. And yes all school districts across the nation are complaining about the same things. They all follow the NEA union play book without question. "

    Never Ending Story wrote on Mar 10, 2008 12:56 PM:

    " All this bantering back and forth is accomplishing. It is just widening the rift on education funding and goring sacred cows. Anybody ever think about the districts with taxpayer representation sitting down with the govenor and leaders of the legislature and laying out exactly what the problem with funding is and offer some workable solutions? Of course the districts would have to clean up thier acts first and prove they are getting as much as possible out of every dollar provided. Prove they have not over implemented on the mandates, cut the frills and are focused on the basics. "

    She does not get it wrote on Mar 10, 2008 11:55 AM:

    " Ms. O'connor has found her way to the Financial Advisory Committee and after listening to her and reading her comments, it is obvious she does not know which way is up. Before attacking the school district perhaps she should learn the laws (State & Federal) that schools must follow. She also needs to see what is happening in districts across the nation (SV has the same problems as other communities). How can someone with little obvious knowledge of finance (and reality)be on a Financial Advisory Committee? "

    Jacqueline O'Connor wrote on Mar 10, 2008 9:41 AM:

    " There are about 6200 District students, 820 of whom are in special education (266 of these are English Language Learners). The school has no choice in providing these services; federal law dictates who must be served(and they pay about 10% of the cost). Some special ed students cannot go to the bathroom alone, and need a nurse (comment at the FAC meeting). Gifted students's budget is $25,000/year. Does attention on special ed students' needs hamper the education of mainstream students? Is there a financial incentive for the District to label students "special ed"? "

    Special Needs Mom wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:33 PM:

    " My son will hold a job, be a taxpayer, even though his IQ is only around 50. He won't know what it is like to rely on social security and be non productive. I have also tried to teach him to overcome the prejudice and ignorance that people have because they don't understand him. It is so sad to know that prejudice and ignorance will always be around with these views shown. "

    Special Needs Mom wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:28 PM:

    " "Let's have a tour", thank God you are not working for this school district. Your empathy is just astounding. Oh, and not all Special Ed students have normal IQ's, unlike "outrage" says. My son has a low IQ and is in Special Ed. The statement that the Extended School Year is no longer available is incorrect as well. My son will attend that this summer going into Buena. My son receives help in special classes as well as attending some mainstream classes. "

    Lets have a tour wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:43 PM:

    " And lets see the magic, let the people see that they are wasting money trying to teach students that can't do anything for themselves.
    Just sit in a wheelchair, can't speak, drool, can't feed themselves, can't talk, can't learn. Worked for a district, been there, saw it. "

    Ms. Villegas Mother of Buena Student wrote on Mar 9, 2008 8:36 PM:

    " Ms.O'Connor-babysitting service? Group home? My child has the same right to be educated, Your comments are cruel! I don't think 30% is too much to for my child. You should go back to school,into Spec. Ed Program and re-educate yourself so you can learn lifelong people skills!
    I'm not giving up on my child, she has a lot to offer this world unfortunately part of this world includes...you! Your world and their counterparts will never be ready for our kids due to your poor attitudes towards our wonderful kids! May God Have Mercy On Your Soul! "

    M wrote on Mar 9, 2008 8:33 PM:

    " Thank you for clearing up your intent, Ms. O'Connor. Maybe a tour of a special ed classroom could assist you in the efforts. It would wonderful for more people to see the magic that happens in these classrooms. "

    Well that says it all wrote on Mar 9, 2008 8:09 PM:

    " Also...on another issue - teachers and those that have repetitive contact with the kids should have background checks done routinely and be drug tested!!!!!!! Why aren't they???? The SVUSD employs teachers and those who have repetitive contact with kids that have serious legal issues, not to mention routinely participate in partaking in illegal drugs. Come on SVUSD clean house, and raise the standards of who you employ. This will begin to raise the standards all the way around. "

    Well that says it all wrote on Mar 9, 2008 8:06 PM:

    " If the SVUSD has not met Adequate Yearly Progress for the last three years...that says it all. Who is holding the Administration, Administrators, Teachers...etc accountable? Starting at the top of course for accountability. The SVUSD is an accident waiting to happen, from teachers who shouldn't be teaching, to discipline issues, to overpaid administrators. Ms. O'Connor all decisions should be made in the best interest of the child...remember that in all of your decisions. Also...on another issue - teachers and those that have repetitive contact with the kids .... "

    Unbelievable wrote on Mar 9, 2008 7:48 PM:

    " Almost 60% of the state budget being spent for education is more than most other states spend. Most are spending less than 50%. That means that other services such as Child Protective Services, Public Safety, highway maintenance, medical care for children and other state provided services are getting short changed. Something is wrong with that picture. If 60% is not enough to slake the educators thirst for money then AZ must be a very poor state with very little in revenues. So how much more has to be cut from other services to increase school funding do the educators recommend?? "

    Jacqueline O'Connor wrote on Mar 9, 2008 4:29 PM:

    " Sierra Vista spends less in the classroom than the state or national norm, and has high administrative and plant operating costs. SVUSD has not met Adequate Yearly Progress the last three years and Buena was listed last year as "Failing". Arizona has one of the country's lowest graduation rates with corresponding high drop out rates and still spends almost 60% of state general funds on education. SVUSD employes 156 paraprofessionals, teachers, administrators, psychologists, and occupational-speech-physical therapists in Special Ed Dept. No one is suggesting ignoring special needs students, but are we forgetting the other students? Still wondering. "

    M wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:06 PM:

    " It is amazing the special ed classes only require 30%. The services provided are priceless. The skill of the teachers and support staff are gifts to the children who do not learn easy. With the rates of Autsim on the rise, what are we to do? Write off this up and coming generation? What tax base would the booms have to live on then? With the rate of 1:150 this something that will touch each of our paths. Wise up folks! The problem is much larger than just 30% of SV public education funds. "

    Disagree wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:39 AM:

    " While many of the comments are strong and negative, they reflect the frustration of the taxpayer. The school district is always clammoring for more money and finding all sorts of reasons why. Now it appears Special Ed will be the poster child for another tax increase. O'Conner seems to be the only one on the committee that is asking the tough questions. Maybe her questions will get the district and the board to explain the budget in terms the general public can understand, not just the insiders. Just why does it take 30% of the budget would be a start. "

    Confused wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:22 AM:

    " I did Google it and it didn't help. If the majority of Special Ed students are of normal or above normal IQ, why does it take 30% of the budget to help them? Exactly what special help are they getting in the general ed classroom that cost so much? What have Wilson, Patton, Von Braun, Churchil, et al, have to do with this? They all may have had some form of learning diasbility (who really knows) but they certainly did not have Special Ed available. They managed succeeded without it. Miracle or hard work? O'Conner needs to stay. "

    M wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:18 AM:

    " There is at least one child who is involved in the special education services who has seen much improvement by the Autism teachers and support staff. Might I remind you that it is the role of the government to make its people whole? Ms. O’Connor, you’ve really opened up something here. I would be glad to provide what ever documentation you feel is needed to “prove” that at least one child is moving more toward being a valuable tax base in the future. How dare you take such a pampas position? Your position should be more humble. "

    outraged wrote on Mar 8, 2008 9:05 PM:

    " Most of the comments regarding Specific Learning Disabled students are really ignorant. Why don't you Google the term. Specific Learning Disabled students have a normal IQ, but can have problems in reading, reading comprehension, math reasoning, math calculation, or written expression. Their services are provided in a general education classroom. There is no Extended School Year anymore because the state criteria doesn't allow it. Please don't write such negative comments regarding the Severe Mentally Retarded either, that is not something that the parents or child chose. O'Conner needs to resign or be removed. "

    Getting Nowhere wrote on Mar 8, 2008 8:35 PM:

    " All this banter is accomplishng nothing. The state only has so much money to spend period every year. Over 50% of that goes for ED. Can't raise that % and still provide other services. Only solution is a restructure of taxes. Eliminate tax credits (only allow deductions), special sales tax for ED (then all would share equally in the burden, and increase the income tax (all sharing according to income). Those are the only ways the state will ever collect enough revenue to end this food fight. You can't get what you want just hitting on the locals. "

    Concerned Parent wrote on Mar 8, 2008 8:19 PM:

    " Did it ever occur to anyone that many of these children in special education are not severely handicapped? Many of these children actually will become productive people, provided they have some direction from parents and teachers. It is true there are some severely handicapped children who will never become taxpayers, but the percentage of these children is very small. I realize 30% of the budget is a large chunk, but this may help them hold a job, instead of living off of social security or welfare. I'd rather my child learn skills instead of relying on welfare. "

    What?? wrote on Mar 8, 2008 6:46 PM:

    " To all the Einstein's who are writing in against Special Education: Teaching disabled and handicapped individuals is the law!I would bet my paycheck that if you had a child or young adult in this situation, you would not be talking the smack you are now.To "Skeptical, pay attention! Knaeble is not even a board member. Lee Knaeble and Ms. know-it-all Jacqueline O’Connor are volunteer members of the rediculous "Financial Advisory Comittee. The only thing I would agree with is that the board members are mostly clueless. Rob Dillon however is a true professional. "

    Supportive Mom wrote on Mar 8, 2008 6:25 PM:

    " When reading this story I was outraged to read that there are people who have such ingnorance towards a subject like this. I have a son whom is in special education and he didn't not choose to be in this class. Students, NO make that children, do not choose to be in the lower portion of thier classes and we as a community should embrace them and try harder to help them. There are so many oppertunities for the students in the gifted program we should make the same possiblities available for the rest of the kids.D.M.W.M.K. "

    Skeptical wrote on Mar 8, 2008 2:07 PM:

    " The comments reported from board members Thomas and Knaeble would suggest these fellows haven't a clue what their fiduciary and educational responsibilities are. Knaeble tells irrelevant stories intended to illustrate the paucity and stout worthiness of his upbringing and Thomas makes 'duh' remarks having no relevancy to anything. These folks are examples of why our educational system has gone to the dogs and how our representatives continue to sleep with them, picking up fleas all the while. "

    Skeptical wrote on Mar 8, 2008 2:01 PM:

    " Teacher wrote (March 7): 'Among those accomplished people who succeeded in spite of having learning disabilities are President Woodrow Wilson, General George Patton, Walt Disney, Vice President Nelson Rockefeller, inventors Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Edison; Albert Einstein, Werner Von Braun, and British Prime Minister Winston Churchill.' What sheer nonsense. This reads like outlandish propaganda put out by public school special education funding advocates. Please, 'teacher,' don't treat intelligent people with such nonsense. The people you listed became intellectual stars in their own right at various times in their lives. 'Disabled'--how absurd. Maybe you ought to read their biographies. "

    A Parent wrote on Mar 8, 2008 9:20 AM:

    " Observer: Special Ed DOES NOT mean handicapped. It is a well-known fact that Einstein had speech delays. That falls under the Special Education category in this day and age. Perhaps a big part of the problem is that people seem to be making the generalization that all Special Ed children are severely handicapped/disabled and will never be able to function in this world. Time to step away from your old school thinking. "

    Productive? wrote on Mar 8, 2008 8:00 AM:

    " I worked in a school where a disabled student was being taught three hours a day, on a one to one, he had to have a nurse present, and didn't know which way was up, and never will. "

    Observer wrote on Mar 8, 2008 7:58 AM:

    " '...the highest-weighted special-ed student is eight times the 'normal' student.' Quiroz's comment is key to the 'special-ed' problem and board member O'Connor was the only person who responded honestly to a severe fiscal and education problem. The problem? The expensive segment of population that was dumped onto the public schools when their institutional care facilities were closed 30-some years ago. Today the question is: Should we re-think re-establishing specialized institutions that could better focus on the care of the disabled and let schools get back to the business of education of the 'normal' population? Teacher: Einstein, et.al. were NOT handicapped. "

    A Parent wrote on Mar 8, 2008 12:34 AM:

    " Jacqueline O'Connor, your tunnel vision views disgust me. Just because a Special Ed student *may* remain until they're 22 doesn't mean they all do. Perhaps you should look up the stats on the typical age of Special Ed students before posting such an instigative comment. But you probably won't, because you seem like the type that says things before thinking, thereby ending up with the Foot in Mouth disease. I hope you are kinder in person than you appear on paper. "

    don yakel wrote on Mar 7, 2008 10:31 PM:

    " special ed is one of the most abused and abusive things to ever happen in scooling. for some reason, people have become obsessed with all children being either briaslliant or stupid. i would remind you of the many individuals who never went to school or only went for a short period, that were more successful than some of the most brillian scolars in the world. I would also remind you of the scolars that are not smart enough to come in out of the rain. "

    Other ways wrote on Mar 7, 2008 10:19 PM:

    " Can the parents of these special education kids contribute some money? "

    Jacqueline O'Connor wrote on Mar 7, 2008 8:25 PM:

    " Oh, I didn't mention that special ed students may remain until they are 22 years of age. This isn't about refusing to help special ed kids, folks. It is about allocating limited resources. When we devote 30% of the budget to 13% of the students, others get the short end of the deal. Are we being humanitarian or is there a profit motive at work here by the District? I'll have to check the trend line for special ed students. Is our growth rate typical? "

    Sub Teacher wrote on Mar 7, 2008 8:23 PM:

    " I have been a sub teacher in the Special Ed program in all the SV schools. I watched many of the children grow. I was amazed at the accomplishments achieved with these children. One of the students works at a local fast food restaurant and is doing an excellent job.
    As for the comments from Ms. O'Connor, you must be Satan's Spawn to speak that way of less fortunate children. Maybe you would like us to take lessons from Hitler regarding those who are not perfect. "

    Additional Info Needed wrote on Mar 7, 2008 6:44 PM:

    " If special ed students are weighted more and the state provides up to 8x the funding per student, what percentage of the monies the state privides for the budget can be attributed to those students. It doesn't seem the state is just making SVPSD eat the cost of special ed but just how much do they get and what are they spending per student. Somebody needs to break it down and justify it for the public to understand. Just saying 30% of the budget goes for special ed students with out details leaves a lot to the immagination. "

    Concerned Parent wrote on Mar 7, 2008 4:35 PM:

    " I am thankful to "employee's" comments. As a parent of a special ed student, I work with him at home, but hope the teachers are able to work with him as well. I cannot say enough how much I appreciate the teachers who do this work. The extended school year also helps. My child WILL become a taxpaying adult. "

    geb wrote on Mar 7, 2008 4:17 PM:

    " What % of these students fall into Spanish speaking and non english speaking students? "

    SV_DAD wrote on Mar 7, 2008 4:10 PM:

    " I am appalled at the comments given by O'Connor. Who is she to say that these chrildren will not be productive in the future as teacher wrote there have been many great people through out history with disabilities that have done great things. Being a father of a child with learning disabilities i will be doing everything i can to get O'Conner off this committee. I mean whats next if your child is not in the top 10% you should not get taxpayers funds for school? "

    Special Needs Mom wrote on Mar 7, 2008 3:58 PM:

    " My son is diagnosed with autism and moderate mental retardation. I do not see why my child should not receive help with his education because his IQ is below normal. Even with such prejudicial views as Ms O'Connor's against special ed and the kids, my son will become a taxpayer, we will make sure of it. I hope he never has to hear that someone thought he should not receive help with education because someone thought he might not be productive, as a taxpayer. Thank God more kids with learning disabilities aren't relegated to being locked away in group homes. "

    John wrote on Mar 7, 2008 2:20 PM:

    " I appreciate Jaqueline's voice on the committee. I don't agree with some of her views, but views can be debated. At least she has gotten involved and tried to be part of the solution, instead merely staying home and doing nothing more than criticizing those who do the work. I would hope that all the members will continue to listen to and respect each other, even when they disagree, and hopefully they all will learn from each other. "

    employee wrote on Mar 7, 2008 1:40 PM:

    " I agree that alot of parents use the school as a babysitter. It is very hard to work all school year long reaching goals with a special ed student, and then have them forget everything over the summer. But there are parents who really appreciate what we do. We put in extra hours, get very little pay, and have to put up with Mr. Roach and all his nonsense all year long. I don't think that 30% is too much for our children who WILL become strong, independent, tax paying adults. "

    not buying it wrote on Mar 7, 2008 12:45 PM:

    " Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a "special ed" student is weighted more and thus brings in more money for that student, and it costs more to educate that student, is it not being paid for? What is the dispute?

    No proof appears to have been offered that up to 8x weighting, and thus extra funds supplied is not providing adequate self-funding of sp. ed. students.

    At this point, it appears the district is again just bunching the whole pot to claim shortfalls. I am not buying it. "

    Jacqueline O'Connor wrote on Mar 7, 2008 12:07 PM:

    " Ted Morris' article was well written. Only thing I wish Ted had added was the figure provided by Rob Dillon (who gave a dynomite presentation). The gifted program (that's for smart kids) receives $25,000 a year. Compare that to the millions spent on special ed, transportation and food services all of which I consider peripheral activities to education. Yep. I said it and I mean it. And we want to compete in the global economy?

    "

    SV_Mom wrote on Mar 7, 2008 11:58 AM:

    " To teacher
    I am sure they didn't have these special programs back then. I know my son has learning disabilities and all special ed did for him was his work! He did much better when he was mainstreamed. "

    Mae wrote on Mar 7, 2008 10:36 AM:

    " is this higher than normal amount of special ed students do the attitude of Cochise County residents willing to support a County attorney office that is more interested in proscecution of border agents than drug runners thus the number of parents having babies here than use drugs. give more support to border agents and less drugs in the community but that does not seem to be the goal in Cochise County "

    teacher wrote on Mar 7, 2008 9:08 AM:

    " I don't know whether to be amused or appalled at Ms. O'Connor's perception of learning disabilities. Among those accomplished people who succeeded in spite of having learning disaiblities are President Woodrow Wilson, General George Patton, Walt Disney, Vice President Nelson Rockefeller, inventors Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Edison; Albert Einstein, Werner Von Braun, and British Prime Minister Winston Churchill. I am glad they did not "wash out of the system" before their contributions were made.
    "

    SV_Mom wrote on Mar 7, 2008 7:43 AM:

    " I agree with O'Connor, we need to put our tax dollars to better use. I believe some parents are using Special Ed as a babysitter for their children. Come on lets get real, there are teens attending Buena who do not remember what they learned the day before. They have the intelligence of a 5 year old! They need to either be put in special group homes or have their parents take on their responsiblities. "

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