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Border critic gets buzzed by F-16s on recent flight

By Ted Morris
Herald/Review
Published/Last Modified on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 02:52:56 pm MST

SIERRA VISTA — A recent international airspace incident involved a critic of the government’s illegal-immigration policies and two F-16 fighter jets.

Glenn Spencer, head of the American Border Patrol, apparently triggered a security trip wire on Jan. 15 as he was flying from El Paso, Texas, in a Cessna 206.

“I was monitoring the progress of the government in securing our border, and I was intercepted by an F-16!” Spencer stated in a letter to his supporters. He uses the letter to drum up support for his watchdog cause.

The incident happened shortly after noon, about eight miles east of Douglas, as Spencer was descending from about 8,000 feet altitude, he said. And, he said, it’s possible his aircraft strayed into Mexico and came back into U.S. airspace.


Glenn Spencer stands off to the side as Mike Christie prepares their Cessna 206 for a flight along the border on Oct. 19, 2007, at the Bisbee Municipal Airport. The airplane was flying very close to the U.S.-Mexico border on Jan. 15 when it was intercepted by fighter jets from Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. (File photo by Ted Morris-Herald/Review)


His letter continued, “I thought I was going to die! He (F-16 pilot) made two passes within 100 feet of me!”

Another local private pilot says the airspace Spencer was in might have been that used for military operations.

The Bisbee Police Department noted the incident in its log of that day: “12:50 p.m., a federal air marshal reported that a Cessna 206 Highwing single engine aircraft crossed the border from Mexico to Arizona illegally. Contact was to be made with the pilot and he was to call the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) Command Center. Two air fighters were launched from Davis-Monthan Air Force Base.”

The Air Force confirmed a sortie occurred.

“I know for sure one (F-16) was scrambled,” said Capt. Lisa Dowling on Friday. She is a public affairs officer with the Western Air Defense Sector, or WADS, based at McChord Air Force Base in Washington state. WADS’ mission, according to its Web site, is to “detect, identify, track and can scramble fighters to intercept unknown or threatening airborne objects.”

On Saturday, she confirmed that two F-16s were involved in the incident.

WADS is part of the North American Aerospace Defense Command, NORAD, which is jointly operated by the United States and Canada.

Dowling said NORAD has conducted air patrols throughout the U.S. and Canada since the start of Operation Noble Eagle, the command’s response to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Since then, NORAD agencies have responded to more than 2,100 possible air threats and controlled more than 48,000 patrol sorties.

The fighter intercept surprised Spencer, who for 18 months has been flying his amateur surveillance missions along the U.S.-Mexico border without incident.

“I do it all the time,” Spencer said, noting he is in regular radio contact with regional flight authorities, including Libby Army Airfield on Fort Huachuca.

“And we’re squawking, and they know who we were,” he said, describing the moments leading up to the Jan. 15 incident.

Squawking is aviation jargon meaning an airplane’s transponder is sending signals to ground radar to help controllers identify the aircraft.

During the flights between San Diego and El Paso, with the Bisbee Municipal Airport as their home base, Spencer’s crew videos the border with high-definition cameras, paying close attention to fence construction.

Using Google Earth to match video to specific locations along the border, Spencer compiles reports for Congress and other interested people. Spencer’s nonprofit group is known as the American Border Patrol, which is not to be confused with the federal government’s U.S. Border Patrol.

Spencer did travel to Washington, D.C., and met a fellow at the conservative think tank Heritage Foundation, Edwin Meese III, who served as the U.S. attorney general in President Reagan’s administration.

During his visit, Spencer also met staff members of U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, and U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo. Both are staunch anti-illegal-immigration representatives.

As of Feb. 1, according to Spencer, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security claimed to have installed 284 miles of border fence, but by his reckoning there were only 163 miles of visible fencing.

“There’s a big difference. We have proof,” Spencer said, not counting certain “fence” segments that are barriers to vehicles but remain open to foot traffic.

The Jan. 15 incident rattled Spencer as the jet fighter roared past his single-engine aircraft. “You better believe it did,” he said. “I thought he was going someplace and didn’t see me.”

The 57-year-old, who lives on the border in the Palominas area, is an experienced pilot, but he said he was more frightened from the F-16 pass than any previous incident in the air.

Spencer said, “Even though we adhered to all aviation regulations, on the ground I was met by: five patrol cars from the Bisbee Police Department, three Border Patrol vehicles, two Arizona Highway Patrol cars, two Customs and Border Protection vehicles, a drug sniffing dog … and various other officials … All the while two F-16s were flying overhead.”

Spencer’s claim could not be verified by press time.

Originally, Spencer was flying with fellow ABP’ers Mike Christie and Wes Fleming. The latter two operate the cameras from the Cessna’s rear passenger area, through an open door. Anticipating trouble, Spencer sits on a flak jacket in case he takes rifle fire from the ground.

On this particular flight, Christie was in the right-hand seat, and Spencer was in the captain’s chair on the left. Spencer said at the time of the F-16 encounter, he was letting Christie fly the plane and was teaching him dead-reckoning, which is a low-tech method of navigation that estimates one’s position by calculating direction and distance traveled.

Christie is a novice, Spencer said, “and we weren’t paying a lot of attention.”

Spencer said it is possible the craft strayed into Mexico, but he has often brushed the border in the past. He did it consciously on Oct. 19 when he flew from Bisbee to Douglas, made a 180-degree turn, flying above Agua Prieta, then cruised along the border on the Mexican side on an uneventful journey back to Bisbee.

“You have to file an international flight plan to cross the border,” said Roland Herwig, an FAA spokesman for the Southwest Region.

Even if American pilots don’t land in Mexico, they must clear U.S. Customs when they return to the U.S., he said.

Herwig said that if a person files an international flight plan and is observed returning to American airspace, the FAA can then inform intercepting fighter jets that the pilot has clearance to fly from Mexico to the United States.

Capt. Gabe Johnson, a public affairs officer with the 162nd Fighter Wing (Air National Guard) at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, whose F-16s are deployed on WADS missions from an alert detachment stationed at Tucson International Airport, commented that “private pilots would do well to know what airspace is restricted.

“Sometimes (F-16s) are scrambled for people who are in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they didn’t talk to the right people,” Johnson said.

Because he flies the border “all the time,” Spencer said U.S. radar operators know his tail number, and he maintains communication with those authorities.

“If they think I’ve done something wrong, call me up,” he said.

Spencer said not only did the F-16s and ground crews not attempt to radio him, but the interceptor jet fighters should have approached him from behind, below and on his starboard side and attempted to make visual contact. “They did none of that,” Spencer said.

He said there was a similar, though less traumatic, incident some time ago when he took a CNN crew up over Roger Barnett’s ranch near Douglas.

Dowling said she was not able to respond immediately regarding how the fighter jets applied the Air Force’s rules of engagement in this particular incident.

Francis McWilliams, a private pilot in Sierra Vista with 4,000 flight hours, said, “I’ve heard of people being buzzed before. It does not surprise me. They’ve either been buzzed accidentally or on purpose.”

McWilliams also has a friend whose airplane was struck by an AK-47 bullet while it flew along the border from Sierra Vista to Nogales, Ariz.

Consulting his charts, McWilliams also said it appears Spencer was intercepted in or near what is known as a Military Operation Area, which are special-use airspaces typically placed in rural areas to protect civilians from noise, debris and accidents. If an MOA is “hot” with activities such as military aircraft performing exercises, you don’t fly through them, McWilliams said.

As an experienced pilot with more than 6,300 hours of flying time, Spencer should be familiar with MOAs. He has been flying through that area for many months with no incident.

He also has been highly critical of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security for “not doing its job.”

F-16 stats

The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a compact, multi-role, maneuverable fighter aircraft. Since Sept. 11, 2001, the F-16 has been a major component of the combat forces committed to the war on terrorism, flying thousands of sorties in support of operations Noble Eagle (Homeland Defense), Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan and Iraqi Freedom. There are a total of 1,280 F-16s in the U.S. arsenal, at a cost of $18.8 million each.

Contractor: Lockheed Martin Corp.

Power plant: Pratt and Whitney F100-PW-200/220/229 or General Electric F110-GE-100/129

Dimensions: Wingspan, 32 feet, 8 inches; length, 49 feet, 5 inches; height, 16 feet; weight, 19,700 pounds without fuel

Speed: 1,500 mph

Range: More than 2,002 miles

Armament: One M-61A1 20mm multibarrel cannon with 500 rounds; up to six air-to-air missiles, conventional air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions and electronic countermeasure pods.

http://www.af.mil

Herald/Review City Editor Ted Morris can be reached at 515-4614 or e-mail cityeditor@svherald.com. Senior reporter Bill Hess contributed to this report.



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    He'll do it again wrote on Feb 28, 2008 1:32 PM:

    " To the poster who said Spencer won't violate any aviation rules again, he doesn't know Spencer. He's always amazed when he is told he can't do something. He is such a narcissist!

    http://www.americanpatrol.com/ABP/NEWS/060105-DETAINED/AGroupJan4.html

    Also, why did the people contributing to ABP think they needed to buy him a million dollar ranch on in Palominas? Just so he can court prospective donors there? Follow up on this one, Herald. "

    Observer wrote on Feb 24, 2008 5:15 PM:

    " The Herald's editor and publisher should go back to authoritative sources to correct their abortive 'story' and either issue corrections or withdraw it and apologize to Herald readers. To redeem itself, the Herald should also run a complete story on Glenn Spencer's background and his activities since his days in California, why he left, his connection, if any, with Jim Gilchrist and the Minutemen and finally why the Southern Poverty Law Center (Morris Dee) designates his organization as a 'hate group.' Let's let some sunshine in on Glenn Spencer--it'll 'Fabreze' the air around him.
    EDITOR'S NOTE: Go to our archives at http://www.svherald.com/shared-content/search/index.php?search=advanced. Type in "glenn spencer" and then fill in the dates from 01-01-2001 to today to find a list of stories printed locally about Spencer. "

    easy to see wrote on Feb 24, 2008 2:44 PM:

    " oberver and flyboy are the same commenter...pretty lame tactic...this is boring!! "

    Fly Boy wrote on Feb 24, 2008 12:47 PM:

    " Hey, Mr. Fly Man! What is your obsession with my underwear? (Now isn't that an ironical answer to a silly question?) "

    Observer wrote on Feb 24, 2008 12:45 PM:

    " Mr. Fly Man, your flippant attitude toward the Spencer planted story would align you with him and the Herald's sensational tabloid storyline. I see no 'irony' in an absurd story that implies the USAF is a tool of Homeland Security. And there's no brushing off, as you seem to want readers to do, a story that reveals how Spencer's antics cost taxpayers thousands of dollars and USAF resources just because he chooses to violate established flight rules. I say Fly Boy and others on this thread are right on--10 thumbs down on Spencer and the childish Herald article. "

    Observer wrote on Feb 24, 2008 10:28 AM:

    " Re: 'Fly Man's' attack on Fly Boy February 22nd (below). That wasn't from a reporter on the dubious 'buzzing' story planted by Glenn Spencer. It's more likely from the Herald's 'expert' flight consultant, Mr. McWilliams. He's probably beginning to regret having contributed to the Spencer plant, ever since USAF Fly-Boy and others have blown the February 10th story out of the wild blue yonder (pun intended). Instead of panning the Air Force as the agent of Homeland Security, it's become clear that it was acting legally and responsibly in accordance with long-established flight procedures along the U-S.-Mexico border. "

    Local Private Pilot wrote on Feb 24, 2008 9:54 AM:

    " As a local private pilot, I resent the condescending suggestion by Capt. Gabe Johnson, DMAFB public affairs officer that “private pilots would do well to know what airspace is restricted". As I am confident Capt. Johnson is well aware, knowledge of restricted air space, military operations areas, and air defense identification zones ADIZ is a requirement for the Private Pilot Certificate. Capt. Johnson's comments should have qualified that overwhelming majority of private pilots do follow the rules. Just because one private pilot violated the FAA ADIZ regs is no reason to generalize.
    "

    USAF Fly Boy wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:56 AM:

    " To John: Excellent point! Being an Air Force officer, I'm not a weapons ballistics expert, but your point casts additional doubt on Spencer's choreography as provided by story collaborator-private pilot Francis McWilliams. However, if you've ever seen some of Spencer's low-level pix of Mexican Army patrols on the border (taken, incidentally at very low-level from the Mexican side) it's not beyond belief that a hot-headed Mexican 'soldado' may have let loose a volley at the Gringo intruder. I don't endorse such tactics on the border, but that might be the price loose cannons might pay for vigilante games. "

    Fly Man wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:13 PM:

    " When I first read this story, I laughed. It seems like some people are missing the total irony of it. And others (Flyboy, do you wear a Superman costume for underwear?) are really getting worked up, as if the U.S. military is the model of perfection. Ha! Anyway, good story, Herald. "

    John wrote on Feb 23, 2008 8:33 PM:

    " I'd like to know how they knew it was an "AK-47" bullet that hit the aircraft. Dont bullets break up or expand on impact? Interesting. "

    Observer wrote on Feb 23, 2008 4:21 PM:

    " t's suggestion is interesting, if not likely. However, if Mexico wanted to make a well-justified point about Spencer's illegal flights into and out of Mexico, they could alert their own air defense establishment and 'defend' their border the next time Spencer plays his low-level games--like forcing him to land at a Mexican airfield, incarcerating him, and then releasing him after a lengthy stay in the poky before answering charges and paying a hefty fine before a Mexican judge. Both governments would make their points and Mexico could claim it was doing its part in enforcing our common border. "

    t wrote on Feb 23, 2008 1:35 PM:

    " This would only be more interesting if Mexico ordered the U.S. to turn Spencer over to the Mexican Government for violating Mexican laws by illegally entering Mexican airspace. Mexico has immigration laws as well as flight laws. "

    USAF Fly Boy wrote on Feb 23, 2008 8:21 AM:

    " Hey, Fly Man! Here's a clue for you. The USAF remains solid and very real. It hasn't become, as clueless folks like you and the nut job Spencer would have it, a tool to be wasted on half-baked fairy tales. The Air Force PAO easily recognizes cheap tabloid fairy-tales concocted by half-baked reporters with political agendas. As to being anonymous, the Herald staff knows very well who I am; in fact, you sound suspiciously like one reporter's recent e-mail. I'm angry, yes--I don't like liars, demagogues, and manipulators. Finally, your personal attacks just inspire me, so stand by for more. "

    Fly Man wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:34 PM:

    " Hey Fly Boy, as I follow the paper, I find it odd that the real USAF hasn't made any comment or challenge to the story. Why are they silent? We don't need a bunch of angry stuff from some anonymous has-been like yourself. Grow up. Get busy with a project or something. "

    Spencer is an IDIOT!!! wrote on Feb 22, 2008 12:52 PM:

    " Who cares that he has done it in the past. He broke the law and the government reacted. Maybe the government was just tired of him breaking the law. I bet you he won't do that again. He should also receive some FAA violations which keep him on the ground for a bit. Good on him for trying to help with the border crossers, but don't break the law trying to enforce the law. He was wrong. Please just admit it and we can move on. "

    USAF Fly Boy wrote on Feb 21, 2008 5:06 PM:

    " Let's put a cap on the Herald's inaccurate story. The entire article was so shot through with misinformation--the result of incomplete reportorial research--that it lost all credibility with anyone acquainted with flight rules, procedures, and facilities. Here's the point: Because the Herald reporters failed in their research, they were sitting ducks for Spencer who, through a third party, 'fed' his spin to them. The paper's publisher, editor, and the two responsible reporters were immediately challenged, but collectively chose not to allow a authoritative, credible point-by-point refutation. It was shameless tabloid journalism. Spencer 1, Truth 0. "

    What????? wrote on Feb 21, 2008 4:19 PM:

    " Someone commented about Spencers fuel business. What business? If he doesn't have a fuel business, the deleter editor should have caught that. "

    Mark C. wrote on Feb 21, 2008 12:14 PM:

    " The Air Force has standard procedures in place for dealing with an aircraft it detects illegally entering U.S. airspace from Mexico. The U.S. Air Force don't care who Mr. Spencer is or why he entered the country illegally, only that his actions represent a potential threat to the United States and that they are responsible for dealing with that threat.

    Has Mr. Spensor been charged with his crime or did the government that supposedly has it in for him, let him off the hook? "

    t wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:44 AM:

    " Also, to all you who are commenting who don't live in this area. Just because someone tells you he is known area wide and is famous in these parts doesn't mean he actually is. He is self professed. I wouldn't know him if he was a foot in front of me. I only know that he broke the law by entering the United States of America illegally! "

    t wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:35 AM:

    " I would be proud to see our U.S. Military securing/escorting any planes that cross the border, this ensures the safety and security of the United States. Spencer claims to want to protect the border and then complains about use of force when he illegally crosses that same border and gets caught. "We weren't paying attention" is not a valid excuse to break the laws. Spencer blew it and is blaming the Government for doing its job. Spencer should have to pay the cost of the interception of his illegal activity. "

    rmw wrote on Feb 21, 2008 9:20 AM:

    " I don't care if someone wants to spend their time/money "watching" the border. I don't understand why he's so upset about the buzz. He said they should have made themselves apparent--if he was a drug smuggler would we want the smuggler to know he was being followed? He said he has been in constant contact with proper ground controllers in the past, but not if he was this time (I might be reading this wrong). And for all you so very concerned with border security--don't look towards Canada--you might have a heartattack at the openess. With a little hardwork,youcouldgetanythingacrosstheborderyouwant. "

    Jim wrote on Feb 21, 2008 6:50 AM:

    " Next time Spencer tries this, I hope he winds up in a Mexican jail. Then he will really have a story.

    The fellow was a crackpot when he ran his organization out of a rented house in PDS, and it's apparent he hasn't changed.

    Why doesn't he attend better to his fuel business and leave the Mexican and US governments alone? Because he is one of these who inhabit the fringes of society here in Cochise County and elsewhere. You all know who you are, and we do too. "

    Jay wrote on Feb 20, 2008 1:23 PM:

    " Sounds like our border is being properly monitored and protected by those legally empowered to do so. "

    Observer wrote on Feb 20, 2008 1:15 PM:

    " TO: Hey Mark C. You must be clairvoyant or have 'inside' information about the government's reaction to Spencer's illegal flights. Would you explain just how 'they' knew it was Spencer playing in in the wrong playpen; and who is it that 'doesn't like him.' To you and your buddies who seem to want to coddle the rich California Cowboy: Are you sure you want to put your confidence in someone who was charged with shooting up his neighbor's garage one night while living in PDS? Or is that just the mark of being a good ole boy? "

    Hey Mark C wrote on Feb 19, 2008 8:21 PM:

    " They knew who he was, and just harrassed him because he might have strayed a few feet over the border and back again. He didn't waste the tax dollars, someone that doesn't like him reporting the truth did. "

    Be wise wrote on Feb 19, 2008 2:32 PM:

    " Some questionable charities use an impressive name that closely resembles the name of a respected, legitimate organization. Ask for information in writing. Check out the charity with your state charity registration office before making a contribution.

    Charities have an obligation to provide detailed information to interested donors. Never give to a charity you know nothing about. Request written literature and a copy of the charity's latest annual report. This should include a list of the board of directors, a mission statement and the most recent available financial reports.
    "

    Mark C. wrote on Feb 19, 2008 11:54 AM:

    " If Mr. Spencer wants to do the job of Government he should run for office. How can someone with no respect for the law, claim to enforce the law. How can someone who crosses the border illegally and causes the government to needlessly scramble 2 F-16s complain about imigrants wasting resources. Mr. Spencer has broken the very laws he claims to want to enforce, wasted the very tax dollars he claims to want to preserve. It doesn't take a genious to read between the lines, this isn't about the law or resources. "

    Bobby wrote on Feb 17, 2008 6:12 PM:

    " I didn't feel I got off point at all by citing OUR history. In fact, I believe most young and other Americans today have lost the connection to the past and this accounts for much of their spiritless and blase attitude. I don't wholey blame them. It was done to them on purpose. The truth is, we need a hundred thousand Glenn Spencers. Here is a guy who has watched and reported on the administrations shenanigans and lies about what they are doing on the border. What a valuable service. With more Glenn Spencers illegal immigration would be finished "

    Observer wrote on Feb 17, 2008 9:26 AM:

    " Bobby, my point in lampooning your reaction to my observations about Spencer's low-altitude flights was this: You got WAY off point by bringing in our 400-year old forefather's migration from Britain and present-day illegal immigration issues. My beef is with Spencer who, having failed to incite Californians, decided to move to Sierra Vista where he has not done one thing to measurably improve the illegal immigration issue. His low-level high-jinx along the border haven't impressed Governor Napolitano (or anyone else, for that matter). The Herald's erroneous, fact-less 'buzzing' story that promotes Spencer's dubious activities is simply perplexing. "

    Third Observer wrote on Feb 16, 2008 11:04 PM:

    " Gosh Observer. You seem a little tense. Got any luvin lately? "

    That is odd wrote on Feb 16, 2008 10:14 PM:

    " I find it odd and funny that the racist La Raza hadn't stuck his head back up after the comment from "Amercian, nothing more". I must commend the very biting comments. I guess the La Raza movement will have to rethink their slogans. "

    Observer wrote on Feb 16, 2008 7:52 AM:

    " To 'Second observer:' You're right! No need to roil the waters, huh? I temporarily lost my head by forgetting your and Rodney King's--America's homespun philosopher--new PC standard: 'Can't we all just get along?' So please accept my apologies for challenging nonsensical posts in the interest of the 'Rodney Principle.' You PC types teach that we should just pretend to understand any gobbledygook one encounters so as not to undermine the poster's self-esteem, right? Give me a few more centuries and I'll finally make that my automatic way of life. Duh! "

    Bobby wrote on Feb 15, 2008 5:40 PM:

    " I find it a little strange that a person who can make such subtle biting jokes like the crayon comment, (very good) can't connect the dots on why this administration is apparently so overconcerned about an American citizens activities on the border. What is Glenn doing, dealing drugs, transporting illegal aliens, trashing Mexican soil? The dots are easy to connect, and I think most people got my point. It's about trusting(or not) government. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend? Now you may object to my style, but is that really your problem with my posts? Be honest. "

    GUIDO wrote on Feb 15, 2008 2:47 PM:

    " There are people from all over the world who want a better life in America.
    Asia, Carribean, Middle East, Europe and yes Mexico and South America. I am 100% in support of these people who come LEGALLY. We need more citizens like Mr. Spencer to stand up and do the job our government refuses to do. I have no respect for those that overtly engage in crimanal activity. It's just greed by the drug and people smugglers. So Spencer strayed, what about the 12 million that also crossed? Why don't we buzz them? They cost millions. "

    Second Observer wrote on Feb 15, 2008 12:09 PM:

    " Stop the ad hominem tactics, 'gentlemen'. It makes your 'arguments' spurious. Duh "

    Mark C. wrote on Feb 15, 2008 11:53 AM:

    " GUIDO, how can you say it's about the law and how much our taxpayers support when Mr. Spencer obviously has no issue breaking the law, or wasting taxpayer dollars? He broke the law and wasted the very resources he claims to champion! Mr. Spencer crossed the border illegally and wasted 10's of thousands in government resources, and he didn't do it because he was looking for a better life in the United States. "

    Observer wrote on Feb 15, 2008 6:23 AM:

    " Bobby, if it's not excessive Kool Aid, then just what is it you're ingesting that leads your mind to try and connect a myriad of unrelated subjects? So far your crayon has scribbled what you say are connecting dots as follows: Spencer's illegal antics on the border --> our forefathers arrival in this country--> my faith in government--> BP agents found guilty of murder in jail --> underfunding the fence--> unarmed National Guard to the border. I don't wish to be rude, but if it's not Kool Aid, then what is it that inspires your far-flung, unrelated thoughts? "

    Bobby wrote on Feb 14, 2008 2:35 PM:

    " Well, Observer, It's a free country. You can intrepret what I wrote anyway you want to,but having a little too much faith in this admiistration and government in general, when it comes to border issues and their utter neglect of them, makes me wonder who it is who has been drinking the Kool Aid. Sending border agents to prison by believing what a drugh dealer says, lying continuoulsy about the progress of a fence, pulling funds for half of that fence, after signing an agreement to build twice as much, sending the Nationa Guard to the Border, unarmed? Kool Aid? "

    GUIDO wrote on Feb 14, 2008 9:07 AM:

    " Why is it people like Mark C and others think this border issue is about racism. It is about the law and how much our taxpayers can support. It is about millions of people causing havoc to our medical systems, causing havoc to our education systems, causing havoc to our environment. Immigration quotas are established on what our economy can bear. When millions violate, invade any other country in the world it usually results in mass killings of some sort. Even our teachers who try to teach English to the illegals are accused of racism. Thank you Mr. Spencer. "

    Ron wrote on Feb 14, 2008 7:35 AM:

    " Sounds like the govy's are upset with Spencer for checking up on them. "

    Observer wrote on Feb 14, 2008 6:04 AM:

    " To 'Bobby'--Hey, dude, you'd better quit drinking so much Kool Aid. It has really screwed up your knowledge of history. Your attempt to draw some sort of parallel between our forefathers landing on the shores of this country about 400 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with the self-appointed nut job tooling around the border and violating FAA/ATC flight rules today. Spencer's whining to the SV Herald about how he's being intimidated by the big bad Air Force tells you something about tghe guy and his story, which I don't believe for a moment. "

    Mark C wrote on Feb 13, 2008 12:48 PM:

    " I don't think anyone is saying that Mexican military incursions into the U.S. should be tolerated or that we should stop trying to control our border. What some are saying, is that someone who claims a commitment to enforcing our law and borders, doesn't really see a problem with crossing those borders illegally himself. Mr. Spencer broke the law, crossed the border illegally and wasted thousands of tax payer dollars because of that violation. But I guess that's ok, so long as he's working to keep those brown people out of our country. "

    Bobby wrote on Feb 13, 2008 1:01 AM:

    " My last comment on this subject is this. It is amusing, really weird, that so many posters are worried about an American who might have made a couple of mistakes flying into Mexican airspace. Haven't any of you individuals so outraged at Glenn Spencer read the dozens of stories involving the Mexican military constantly crossing into U.S. territory illegally? On the other hand, why should your attitude by a surprise, you same people find nothing wrong with twenty to thirty million crossing over illegally. No one is starving in Mexico. They just like what we have here more. "

    EarlyBird wrote on Feb 12, 2008 8:55 PM:

    " We need more Patriots like Glenn Spencer
    and his group whether it is to observe illegal border crossings and reporting them to the Border Patrol or documenting Government malfeasance of American Tax dollars. Glenn Spencer should be commended for his efforts and not chastised for his errors if in fact he did criss cross into Mexican Airspace. There are many foreign incursions of low level aircraft landing on our sovereign soil which come from the south across our border carrying illegal contraband of all sorts and are not buzzed by our F-16's, so go figure.
    "

    Mark wrote on Feb 12, 2008 4:22 PM:

    " So this militia guy, who is all upset because people are illegally crossing the border, crosses the border illegally and doesn't really see a problem with that?

    I'm not surprised. "

    Bobby wrote on Feb 12, 2008 3:09 PM:

    " To A USAF Hot Dog, so what bothers you is an American citizen who is a "loose cannon" who has been "tooling" around the border for the last couple of years........ Well, thank God we had some "loose cannons" "tooling" around the "borders" some two hundred plus years ago. Only about one third of those "tooling" around were brave enough to take on the whole British Empire, the rest were too busy with "other things", just like now. Man, if your an example of someone in the USAF, than sorry to say, you don't inspire much confidence in this American. "

    Get real! wrote on Feb 12, 2008 2:30 PM:

    " I rather doubt the F-16s were within a 100 feet of his plane. If he can't judge the distance to the border, how can we believe he can identify 100 feet between aircraft? He likes to push the envelope to see what he can get away with and then sensationalize the results. He's been met by the authorities at the airport before so he knows exactly what he's doing. That good old conspiracy theory tends to increase those tax free donations. Illegals get tax free benefits, and Spencer, too. What a retirement plan! "

    HammerDown wrote on Feb 12, 2008 12:43 PM:

    " "La Raza" translates literally to "The Race". Who's the racist here, really?

    The "La Raza" types that espouse their "Mexica Movement" view, are a clear and present danger to the USA, and a violent threat to all Americans. They should be dealt with accordingly.

    Our nation is heading towards an "American Intifada", when these hordes of RazaNazis begin a violent insurrection against America and against all Americans. It is possible that we will see a Civil War within our own borders in the forseeable future. What to do?

    My family is buying ammo. "

    SFC MAC wrote on Feb 12, 2008 10:48 AM:

    " Gee, why don't they buzz all the ILLEGALS who cross the border???? "

    Icediver wrote on Feb 12, 2008 10:25 AM:

    " If the pilot is as "experienced" as he claims, then he should have been aware of the MOA. Also, why do you want to "train" an unqualified person to fly in an area so close to the international border?

    It truly sounds like this guy is asking for trouble and when he gets it he screams bloody murder that it wasn't his fault! The FAA should jerk his ticket and let him "patrol the border" on foot. "

    BB wrote on Feb 12, 2008 9:40 AM:

    " Keep up the good work Glenn. "

    Observer wrote on Feb 12, 2008 8:11 AM:

    " Wow! The 'buzzing' article has brought out the psychos who see Big Brother's cameras in every stoplight and imagine his microphones in every light fixture and tapped phones. Even the F-16s they read about in this article are probably black, flown by Big Brother Cyborgs who, with one twist on a dial, could render dissident American citizens like poor ole Glenn Spencer and his ilk (such as 'macdaddy') impotent at minimum and into Cyborg-Junion at worst. Better dig your backyard bomb shelters a meter or so deeper and cover it with more aluminum foil to ward off bad vibes. "

    macdaddy wrote on Feb 12, 2008 5:47 AM:

    " Sounds like to me the feds are getting a little chapped at this guy for keeping a check on their lack of progress. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING "

    American, nothing more wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:24 PM:

    " La Raza, I don't know how to tell you this. You are a descendent of Euros. I'm sorry. Your language, yea, it's Spanish, from Spain. See, your country was raped and pilaged by the Spanish over 600 years ago. Your religion, it's Cathlic from the Italians. You see, you have no culture except the culture of Europe. I know it's hard to except, but the Spanish brought you everything you now have, and pretty much killed all the "Mexicans" that were there. The same as the "Euro's" did to the Natives in America. "

    A USAF Hot Dog wrote on Feb 11, 2008 7:55 PM:

    " To Alex: Sorry, old man, but the fact that you visited an ATC center and observed the NORAD military liaison in tandem does NOT tell us that the infamous weirdo/self-appointed border patriot ('doing the Lord's work' according to one strange poster's comment on this thread) was squawking IFF and/or was in contact with the ATC controller. Fact is, Spencer is a loose cannon who has been tooling around the border for the last couple years, dodging in and out of the ADIZ below radar detection. Got it? (You do remember the ADIZ, don't you?) "

    The End wrote on Feb 11, 2008 6:41 PM:

    " Is this the end of it, as most articles in the Herald? Or is the reporter going to do some leg work and follow up on it? To get some answers, to the unanswered questions that this article brought up. "

    To Murphy wrote on Feb 11, 2008 4:31 PM:

    " Actually, if you wonder why the AF didn't respond in this manner for 9/11...maybe you've forgotten that pre-9/11, American's didn't really see planes as a big threat the way they do now. Planes used to only be used as a tool for taking hostages, not taking hostages and then ramming said aircraft into a building.
    What does make me wonder is how easily people FORGET... "

    Cabbage-the-cat wrote on Feb 11, 2008 3:34 PM:

    " Yea they were harassing him.

    They were saying,

    "Stop drifting back and forth across the Mex./US border. It sets off our alarms and makes us scramble multi million dollar jets and burn lots of JP5. That's money we could be using to build the fence."

    As Jim Carrey says in Liar, Liar...

    "Stop breaking the law!!!" "

    Jon wrote on Feb 11, 2008 1:57 PM:

    " You people make me sick!!! He is a good man doing the lords work and you all have the audacity to question his motives. What a worthless bunch of unamerican losers you are. "

    Bobby wrote on Feb 11, 2008 1:53 PM:

    " To An American Against Bigotry,
    have you ever thought of politics, the nations laws,or any other human problems, in any way other than through the prism of perceived racism, bigotry, exclusion, etc.? Believe it or not, the problems or modern societies go a bit deeper than what your philosophy suggests. Your confusion is shown by the fact that you are bothered by an American citizens supposed transgressions but not by millions of disrespectfull folks, from a worthless and disrespectfull nation--in my opinion. "

    Rosie wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:31 AM:

    " La Raza.... if you drive out all the euros you'll have no euro taxes to support your baby boom and no euros to employ you for under minimum wage. Without us euros this country will just become another mexico and you'll all starve to death. Be careful what you wish for.

    This article just shows how happy the government is to waste our money.

    "

    Passing the buck wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:12 AM:

    " Morris sure did a good job of that. "

    Alex Maslowitch wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:06 AM:

    " He was in contact with Local ATC or Center. Squawking? As a former commercial pilot with over 13,000 hours both civil and military and have been to center and seen the military liason in the same room, I can say, the military knew where he was from, where he was going and what he was doing. If fighters were dispatched it was an unnecessary and unsafe incident that the military pilots have some explaining to do. 100 ft. Hotdogs that need their wings clipped. "

    Doug wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:04 AM:

    " Didn't anyone notice that for once Homeland security did thier job without any screwups? As for those who think it isn't posible for one to file a flight plan go off course land in Mexico pick up drugs or what not and fly back in to the states guess again. They did thier job and when he landed they checked him out and when he was found legit they turned him loose. What part of that don't you understand? He got his fifteen minutes of fame. Enough said! "

    Mike Jones wrote on Feb 11, 2008 9:47 AM:

    " This guy was right on top of Fort Huachuca/Sierra Vista AZ. (Secret Army Intelligence Base, that monitors Sig Int. from all over South America). As well as trains alot of Military Analysts from all over the country.. "

    Scott Clark wrote on Feb 11, 2008 9:29 AM:

    " Glenn Spencer has 6,500 hours of total flight time and was in contact with the respective air space flight controllers. He was not breaking any regulations, in fact, he was following them by using a transponder to let air traffic controllers follow his every move.

    This incident like many in the past was to stop Spencer from telling th public about the Boarder Fence that is not being built by dishonest officials within our Government that refuse to enforce our Immigration laws "

    SS Me wrote on Feb 11, 2008 9:24 AM:

    " You know how some of the "First Responders" are starting to charge citizens for false alerts? Maybe NORAD or the Air Force should charge Glenn Spencer for time, fuel and whatever else for having to check on him. Maybe then he would file a correct flight plan.

    Ok, so maybe he was "squakin" and they should know who he was. If he knew he might "inadvertantly" fly over the boarder, he should have written that in the flight plan. Serves him right. "

    Jerry wrote on Feb 11, 2008 9:12 AM:

    " Just the goverment being a jerk. "

    phantom2 wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:40 AM:

    " So, according to "An American Against Bigotry", if we apply the same standards to the illegals attempting to cross into the US illegally, we are justified in opening fire with whatever we have to keep them from "violating" our sovereignty. Bring yourselves on, La Raza! "

    M McAlister wrote on Feb 11, 2008 7:49 AM:

    " Your article was incorrect -- you can fly through an MOA. They are not the same as a "no fly airspace" as over the Capital. In fact if you will check a current VFR aeronautical chart you will see vast MOA areas all along the gulf coast (see the Pensacola Panama City area). The chart will also give you the restrictions and telephone numbers to call for military operations. "

    An American Against Bigotry wrote on Feb 11, 2008 7:28 AM:

    " So... he's all anal about letting brown people in, but lax on following the regs himself?

    Maybe the Mexican army should fire heat seeking SAM at him next time he violates their airspace. "

    Sierra Vista Resident... wrote on Feb 11, 2008 12:30 AM:

    " GO US Air FOrce! Excellent job. Now if we can get someone to do an article on Douglas residents flying south (at low level and without authorization)! Or the Mexican aricraft flying out of Mexico and landing at the ranch close to Border Marker 104, just across the Huachuca Mountains from Sierra VIsta. "

    Veteran Pilot from Colorado wrote on Feb 10, 2008 11:04 PM:

    " While the regs don't condone "straying" over the border, I will offer this factual correction. A MOA (Military Operating Area) is NOT a restricted airspace under the regs. It is cautionary information advising of dangerous military traffic. VFR traffic (that is, traffic not operating on an instrument flight plan) should exercise extreme caution while in and near them and maintain radio contact with the controlling agency when the MOA is hot. "

    Bobby wrote on Feb 10, 2008 9:13 PM:

    " It doesn't tax my immagination in any way that the same administration that is secretly trying to abolish the U.S. by forming a North American Union, bother private citizens who they feel are getting in the way, whethter on land, sea, or in Glenn Spencers case, the air. "

    bruce wrote on Feb 10, 2008 9:09 PM:

    " the author or the pilot is confusing pilotage with dead reckoning "

    Scott Clark wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:55 PM:

    " It seems some of you hate Glenn Spencer more than the lying Politicians that sold the American People a bill of goods. "

    Scott Clark wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:54 PM:

    " Kay Bailey Hutchison introduced an amendment the night that we the people were able to stop the Kennedy/McCain Amnesty to allow DHS not to build the fence.
    The 1.2 billion Secure Fence Act of 2006 was passed into law and 787 miles of double layer security fence was supposed to built 18 months from the time GWB singed it into law in 2006.
    The have not built any more than 2.5 miles of double layer fence and have only built a total of 64 miles of single layered and vehicle fence since the law went into effect. "

    Azluna wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:23 PM:

    " Funny how this happens when thousands of illegals come across, illegally mind you, our border day after day and nothing really seems to be done about it. Perhaps if a group or two of 20 or 30 more illegals got "buzzed" by F-16s or even Black Hawk Choppers, you would think they would be scared out of their wits! But an American citizen gets "buzzed" and the finger wag because he/she inadvertently crossed over into international airspace! What gives!! "

    Murphy wrote on Feb 10, 2008 7:59 PM:

    " Makes you scratch your head as to why the Air Force did not react with such efficiency during 911.. "

    Fark wrote on Feb 10, 2008 5:01 PM:

    " "I was monitoring the progress of the government in securing our border, and I was intercepted by an F-16!”

    Then shouldn't you be happy? The government is successfully securing the border! Some people... "

    Observer wrote on Feb 10, 2008 4:54 PM:

    " This story by Ted Morris and Bill Hess is a journalistic scandal that would make the supermarket tabloids blush. Where does the Herald get off giving Glenn Spencer, self-appointed patriot who was run out of California for being a public nuisance (among other more serious charges), the publicity he so craves. Spencer routinely and impudently violates Mexican airspace by tooling around the border without filing flight plans at low altitude, thus escaping FAA/NORAD radar. After he shot up his neighbor's garage a couple of years ago, people should wise up that we're dealing with a dangerous nut case. "

    Fly boys wrote on Feb 10, 2008 4:33 PM:

    " They were just harrassing him, they know who he is, there was no reason for them to intercept him. "

    La Raza wrote on Feb 10, 2008 4:01 PM:

    " Our land was invaded and our people massacred. Your time is up Euros. Back to your caves in Europe where you belong.

    The land is La Raza and La Raza is the land. Your Presidente Bush knows this and why he supports out just cause.

    In the 1960s we thought we would have to fight to regain our lands but enough Euros have learned our cause it just.

    The Euros are weak. They can not even make enough babies to carry on. La Raza people make 6 babies for every Euro baby. Our culture will rule again. "

    Ted Morris wrote on Feb 10, 2008 3:00 PM:

    " My original story draft correctly characterized Hutchison's and Tancredo's position on immigration. With all due respect, due to an apparent editing error, that fact was botched. It has since been re-edited and corrected in the online version. Cheers! "

    Border watcher, too wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:58 PM:

    " The FAA sent the E-16s after Glen Spencer and did it PDQ. They don't just send those guys up to stretch their wings. The FAA says he crossed the border into the US from Mexico and that's why they came out to see what was going on. I guess that answered Spencer's questions about border security!
    "

    RR wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:56 PM:

    " Mr. Spencer does this all of the time. This isn't the first time he has been questioned about flying into the US from Mexican Air space. CBP has encountered him before but unfortuneately, they didn't want to pursue seizing his plane. He interferes with Border Patrol Aircraft on a regular basis, endangering the pilots in the helos that are trying to protect our nation. Makes you wonder what his motives are. "

    Paul wrote on Feb 10, 2008 11:29 AM:

    " I crosses into Mexican air space he is violating Mexican sovereignty. I will forward this article to Mexican air Forece and embassy so it takes care of this. "

    midwest minuteman wrote on Feb 10, 2008 11:25 AM:

    " Just like our government, to scramble fighter jets to intercept one of the most well known planes flying along our border, but to ignore the constant incursions of the mexican military crossing our border and the traffic of herion, meth, cocaine and pot, of which the majority of cross unimpeded that same border! "

    jack wrote on Feb 10, 2008 9:18 AM:

    " Nice to know our authorities are alert and reacting to possible border violations! "

    roy w wrote on Feb 10, 2008 9:06 AM:

    " I don't have a problem with this private group monitoring the progress its government is supposed to be making. But, if the story has quoted Mr. Spencer correctly, it seems he has a "lax" attitude towards Aviation Regulations as they pertain to the border. Anyone who flies in this area is supposed to know that the only area allowed to fly over Mexico is upon take off from the Douglas Municipal Airport due to safety considerations, due to runway positioning. The "laws" apply to both citizens in the air, and "illegals" on the ground. "

    AzMex wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:46 AM:

    " Hey Spence!
    You are the pilot in command and should take responsibility for the operation of your aircraft. (Don't blame Christie)
    Authorities have a plan in place to intercept and confine errant pilots.
    It would appear to the average Joe that you broke your own rules by crossing the Mexican border illegally! "

    CAS in Douglas wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:13 AM:

    " I can confirm that there was an F-16 flying around Douglas at that time. The aircraft was unusually close to town. The military fly a little more to the north on their way to the Perilla and Peloncillo mountains to perform maneuvers. This one was right over Douglas as it circled and increased altitude. Then it would dive towards earth ... picking up speed. All of a sudden then the burners would ignite and the jet was flying nose up into the clear blue sky. IT WAS AWESOME! And loud! "

    A True Conservative American wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:00 AM:

    " To ABP Spencer: Dud...oops Dude, quit whining about our first responders doing their jobs. In my opinion you should flip the bill for the resources of American taxpayers that were wasted because of your carelessness. Don't set double standards. Illegal entry into the country is illegal regardless of the citizenship of the perpetrator.

    Kudos to those who put their lives on the line once again to responded to this potential breech of national security. Spencer should be appologetic to his nation rather than criticizing the incident he created. "

    Iris Lynch wrote on Feb 10, 2008 7:31 AM:

    " to say that the US Representatives mentioned in the article are staunch supporters of illegal aliens is the exact opposite of the truth. They are staunch supporters of ANTI-illegal alien supporters. "

    Robert Berger wrote on Feb 10, 2008 7:11 AM:

    " Writer Ted Morris is confused. Rep. Tancredo is NOT a staunch "illegal-immigration representative." Tancredo formed the House Immigration Reform Caucus now chaired by Rep. Bilbray(CA). Hutchison, Sen. (R) while supposedly opposed to illegal immigration gutted in a Senate move further construction of the border security fence.
    It will never be built.
    N.B., security fences are used, and have been used throughout the world with great success.
    By the way, try to illegally enter Mexico from the Southern border. If you are not killed, robbed, raped and beaten you are lucky.
    Mexico 8th richest country dumps her poor here. "

    Pauly wrote on Feb 10, 2008 6:24 AM:

    " Off we go, into the wild blue yonder. Gotta love our Air Force! "

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