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Land swap OK’d: Council vote comes despite some urging issue be tabled

By Gentry Braswell
Herald/Review
Published/Last Modified on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 06:10:29 am MST

SIERRA VISTA — In front of a large crowd and after public debate Tuesday at City Hall, the City Council approved a land swap for public access to the Garden Canyon Wash.

The long-term vision is to create a linear park in Garden Canyon Wash. The land swap between the city and a private resident at the end of Kachina Trail is related to that project. The swap provides for city right of way where a trailhead for the natural linear park plan, or at least emergency and maintenance vehicle access, could be located.

The neighbors in the area, which is on the periphery of developed Sierra Vista and near the Fort Huachuca border and state and federal lands, tend to have strong opinions either for or against a trailhead so near their back yards.

About 50 people showed up to hear and make comments on the issue.



Ultimately, the council unanimously approved swapping a 3/4-acre triangular piece of property on the lot owned by Mr. and Mrs. Carl Batts for about 3 feet of land along the back part of the Batts’ property.

By Arizona law, such a swap must be an agreement voluntarily entered by the government and the private party, Assistant City Manager Mary Jacobs said.

The council has promised not to move forward with respect to the exact form and use of this particular right of way, nor any of the rest of the linear park details until completion of a public input process set to begin in January, Jacobs said.

Area resident Bret Smith addressed the council to summarize history of development along Garden Canyon Wash, which is a geologically historic and important runoff feature in this part of the San Pedro Valley.

Formerly all of the wash area that runs east through town was owned by developer Castle & Cooke, which dedicated that floodplain into city right of way once the real estate was built out in that area of Sierra Vista, Smith said. At that time in the middle 1990s, there was an outcry as the city took into its right of way that floodplain, he added.

That outcry was followed by assurances of a public input process when the linear park designs were eventually cut — his implication being the land swap is related to the park, but its approval Tuesday has removed it from public debate.

The linear park has been on the city development plan for about two decades.

Smith urged the council to respect, heed and properly conduct the public input process that was promised back then.

Nearby resident Laura Snyder said that after approval of the land swap, the public input process planned will be after the fact, at least insofar as she is concerned because she lives so close to the parcel in question.

Snyder believes the council and staff members have their minds made up about the trailhead.

She said she supports access to the linear park, but that access already exists.

“I feel violated by the city,” Snyder said.

Her husband, Brad, suggested that the city is in violation of covenants, conditions and restrictions documentation drafted by the neighborhood developers and held by the homeowners because the access right of way would not be a definitively residential use.

He suggested environmental peril will stem from paving a trailhead.

Matthew Walton, the Arizona Game and Fish Department’s Southeast Arizona access coordinator, said the location is suitable for non-motorized access, and he urged that cooler heads prevail in this process.

Resident Louise Keenan indicated suspicion that the city is unethically trying to get the trailhead done, and the public input process planned for January is only to feign interest.

Neighbor Amanda Tyson said the trailhead design at the location would not provide for horse trailer access. She said the police are already ineffective with respect to enforcement in the area, and illegal immigration and its incidental crime and damage would increase if the access spot comes to be. Terrorists would be more attracted by it, too, she added.

At about the same time as the initial public discourse came to be heard about a trailhead earlier this year, an order from fort command closed the foot gate access to Fort Huachuca property citing homeland security reasons. The unmanned gate is actually in the wash, which was frequently used by hikers and mountain bikers.

Brenda Haynes supports the access and the linear park vision in general.

“I think it would be a boon for the city, but we need trail access,” she said.

Neighbor Steve Saway also expressed his support, citing the interconnectedness that would be furthered by a the access point and the linear park project, which would link multiple use paths with the many Huachuca Mountain trails on U.S. National Forest land and the popular Brown Canyon Trail.

Julia Robertson said the city is using “friendly condemnation” policy that violates the neighbor’s civil rights.

City Attorney Stu Fauver said this process is not a condemnation of any sort.

Before the vote, Councilman Bob Blanchard said he intended to vote for the swap but would never vote for a parking lot in the area nor would he ever vote to pave the road to it.

Mayor Bob Strain thanked everyone at the meeting who spoke “for their thoughtful and heartfelt comments.”

City Manager Chuck Potucek said last week that the land swap gives the city “an option for potential public access in the future, and no decision is going to be made as to that or the type of access, until the results of the public process.”

REPORTER Gentry Braswell can be reached at 515-4680.



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    to to AZ native wrote on Dec 5, 2007 6:51 PM:

    " Yes, that is precisely the point, we all have come before and after someone. We all leave a footprint on this earth, and as hardwording Americans we should be fortunate to be here. I'm not the one complaining to City Hall, never have, I accept the fact that others will also move here. The complainers are the hypocrites. "

    to AZ native wrote on Nov 29, 2007 4:36 PM:

    " Yeah, you got yours also on Atsina. You don't think there was any native desert and all the wildlife at your place either? And don't you have an 8' fence around your property? What a hypocrite! "

    Lots of access wrote on Nov 29, 2007 12:17 PM:

    " AZ Native, there really is a lot of access to the open space. Your taxes pay for the maintainance so you should take advantage. Also, don't be too eager to malign people who border the open space. It isn't necessary. My guess is they wouldn't care at all if you asked to cross their property. And if you are offended at all the develpment, you might want to examine your stance. I have been following this for a while. The City has some pretty destructive ideas that are anti wildlife. "

    To AZ native wrote on Nov 29, 2007 11:51 AM:

    " I appreciate your comments because all points of view are welcome. But are you really trying to push the misinformation that someone is trying to block others from access? There are vast spaces owned by the public (that includes you) currently available. Go get some maps. If it is public, you can use it. And there is a lot of it. "

    To Tom wrote on Nov 29, 2007 11:45 AM:

    " I did use the existing access near the water tanks. It works. What is all the fuss about? "

    To AZ native wrote on Nov 29, 2007 11:42 AM:

    " Somone had to buy the land and split it up before people built houses. Overdevelopment is 100% the responsibility of the City and County. Your complaint about overdevelpment is good but decades too late. But we can work together to save what is left. That is what this is all about. And nobody is being blocked from anything. There is a HUGE public access point on the short stretch of Kachina between Cherokee and Calle Encina. It is public land dedicated to outdoor types like yourself. Use it. Enjoy! "

    Tom wrote on Nov 29, 2007 10:50 AM:

    " Just beyond the water tanks on Kachina. Great recreational access point. You can't complain if you haven't checked it out. "

    City Wrong wrote on Nov 29, 2007 10:20 AM:

    " Our City Government is typically on the wrong side of logic. But you would never know that from the 100% unamimous vote (if you can call it a vote) that happens every time the Mayor puts an agenda item on the table. "

    Bob wrote on Nov 29, 2007 10:12 AM:

    " Good directions. I took a ride through the huge "secret" public access from Kachina yesterday. The path is awesome. The access ride is fun by itself. It is hard to beleive this has been there for a decade without any awareness. Thanks for pointing this out. I got what I need. "

    Joe wrote on Nov 29, 2007 10:08 AM:

    " Have you read the blogs on SV Council pay? Pay should be removed entirely until a healthy debate occurs on the council. Bob Strains agenda must be turned down at least 30% of the time before anyone will really believe the Council isn't bogus. "

    Smart wrote on Nov 29, 2007 8:46 AM:

    " It is the City that isn't smart. Anyone up to no good, including Abdul if that is the case, will be encouraged to park elsewhere if parking can only be obtained where police can easily observe. If the City builds comfortable, secluded parking for criminals, then criminals will use that parking. If secluded AND near a target perimeter like Fort Huachuca, criminals will flock. So, what type of welcome will the City offer criminals? "

    Isn't it lovely wrote on Nov 28, 2007 10:55 PM:

    " The city council gets to pick the Citizens Advisory Committee to suggest a salary increase. The city council gets to do a land swap which may or may not be used for access and/or a parking lot in the wash. The city gets to given a list of givens for the linear park before the public input. Why does the city need the public except to rubber stamp the city's ideas? Just whose city is Sierra Vista? "

    Hey "Someone" at 5:08 wrote on Nov 28, 2007 10:38 PM:

    " Do you realize that you just included yourself in the put down as you posted here too. The terrorist may be way smarter than the city council. We don't need a parking lot in the wash, even the terrorist know that. How innocent was taking flying lesson? How innocent is a parking lot down in a wash? The area use to be know as the PIT. "

    AZ NATIVE wrote on Nov 28, 2007 7:29 PM:

    " Hey, GCW give us a break!We already have two public parking lots on the fort, the cemetary and golf course. Security is just a ruse by you to keep people away from what you want to keep for yourself, and to keep the hiking gates closed. As an AZ native I have seen your area in almost pristine state, deer, javelina, antelope, coyote,roamed the area,but then the residents of the GCW area built houses and thereafter no one else is allowed? You got yours. That's why you built a fence to keep all other residents out!! "

    Abdul wrote on Nov 28, 2007 6:18 PM:

    " Gee this is too simple. Wonder what would have happend if I asked for bank account information. Does anyone really believe that the FH gate was going to remain open forever? I personally feel some knucklehead on FH should have closed it a long time ago. "

    To Abdul wrote on Nov 28, 2007 6:02 PM:

    " Just go ask for one of the new color brochures at city hall. They will explain where the access to the fort is. "

    Hey Abdul wrote on Nov 28, 2007 5:08 PM:

    " Someone took you serriously. The terrorist are way smarter, than anyone posting comments here. "

    To City Attorney Stu Fauver wrote on Nov 28, 2007 4:37 PM:

    " and City Manager Chuck Potucek, why rush the land swap before the public input if "no decision is going to be made as to that or the type of access, until the results of the public process". This is putting the cart before the horse. Who is fooling whom? Your voters are not stupid! "

    Pawns wrote on Nov 28, 2007 3:45 PM:

    " Our Council is just a bunch of pawns. "

    GardenCanyonWash.com wrote on Nov 28, 2007 3:12 PM:

    " Maj.Gen Custer recently predicted that Fort personnel would be facing conflicts for at least the next 15-20 years. This means there will be ongoing security concerns for the Fort and the community. The City should think twice about putting a parking lot in such close proximity to the Fort. They just might be providing easy access and cover for some very unwanted visitors. "

    Locations are out wrote on Nov 28, 2007 1:43 PM:

    " I see the locations of some access points are being dispensed. The most important thing to remember is that it is in the community's best interest to keep all cars parked in the open on regular police beats. Friend or foe will be subject to the requisite scrutiny in this case. And keep the Fort perimeter clear so we can work on getting that reopened. "

    Pay close attention wrote on Nov 28, 2007 10:45 AM:

    " Look for and pay close attention to what the city is doing. Will the publice input meetings be announced more than two weeks before it happens. The city council meetings seem to be scheduled at the most inopportune times for public attendance. If this is'nt the city's intention, they better use better planning methods. I'm sure their consultant is given more than two weeks notice. "

    To Abdul wrote on Nov 28, 2007 9:44 AM:

    " Go to Google Maps. Copy/Paste these exact coordinates ( 31.494669,-110.276486 ) into the Search field and Click Search Maps. Then Click the Satellite button (upper right). The arrow should be pointing to a wide designated public access and drainage way. Park by the water towers or on the wide Cherokee shoulder. See also ( 31.496416,-110.274437 ) for alternate access to the same place. Note that the Cherokee multi use path almost connects ( 31.49428,-110.274282 ). You can see the trail if you zoom. Enjoy, and welcome to the neighborhood! "

    To Nice wrote on Nov 28, 2007 8:00 AM:

    " No need for "Change as you go" politics. The City/County/Public mereley needs to use the access that the developers DID provide. Of course, if the City/County really cared about access, they would make these public taxpayer owned and maintained access opportunities more known to the public. People think the huge access point on Kachina/Suma past the water tanks is private property. It is not private property. It is owned by Cochise County and available for public use. But don't tell anyone. The City is keeping that a secret to push an agenda. "

    Abdul wrote on Nov 27, 2007 6:40 PM:

    " Please to say where are these access points. HA "

    To Garden Canyon Wish Writer at 9:18 wrote on Nov 26, 2007 10:43 PM:

    " You are talking about your wonderful city council. They're the ones who put the letter out in May stating that perhaps, "an access could be put on Cherokee, but the residents had not been asked". Therefore, they stuck it off of Kachina in the county without asking anyone, but Carl Batts. Talk about NIMBY!!! Add Roadrunner Park which hasn't been built to the mix and you have a city council that has said NIMBY twice to their own parking lot in their own city linear park. Now, go talk to all the politicians at city hall. "

    GardenCanyonWash.com wrote on Nov 26, 2007 9:18 PM:

    " To those of you surprised to find out about the additional access point(s). There are also 10 cement drainage ditches that already provide access from neighborhood cul de sacs. We were under the impression that the Public Input Sessions would be the proper forum to discuss these matters. Then the Council circumvented the entire process with their land swap. We all lose when government is dysfunctional. Take a look on Google Earth. "

    Garden Canyon Wish wrote on Nov 26, 2007 6:00 PM:

    " Build that parking lot, the heck with the NIMBY'S "

    To Bob wrote on Nov 26, 2007 5:49 PM:

    " The city and Cochise Couty District 1 Supervisor Pat Call ( supervisor for this county area) wanted a parking lot on Kachina. Need more be said? "

    neighborhood watch wrote on Nov 26, 2007 3:26 PM:

    " Have you seen the Washington Post and Fox News today? Interesting how the Herald has not reported it. It was reported by KOLD last week. Fort Huachuca has specifically been targeted by terrorists. No big surprise there. We must question the reason and sanity of a city council that insists on putting a parking lot next to the fort. "

    Jim wrote on Nov 26, 2007 2:20 PM:

    " A friend of mine went to the meeting and told me the City did not argue that they were not complicit in the Fort Pedestrain gate closure. I think an effort should be made to ensure we get that opportunity restored. If that means no parking lot, then so be it. Cudos to the guy that pointed out the fact that the developer did indeed provide for access from Kachina. I appreciate the City trying to help recreationers. But I do not really need any more help. "

    Bob wrote on Nov 26, 2007 1:44 PM:

    " I went for a ride Friday. I parked at the Garden Canyon trailhead at BST and 92. I rode under the Cherokee bridge and exited the HUGE drainage/public access on Kachina (stay on the south west side of the rock filled drainage basin). From there I headed for Brown Canyon. I figure the trip took the same time I would have spent if I had used an access at the end of Kachina. So what is the big deal. Why didn't the dude with the information share it before last week's Council meeting? "

    To Nice too wrote on Nov 26, 2007 1:09 PM:

    " It would have been NICE if Castle and Cooke had provided an access to the land that was useless to them as it is unbuildable, in the flood plain, and land locked. The city knowingly approved all of the subdivisions, thus creating this fiasco. If the city's concern was for a small gate for mountaine bikers and hikers to exit or enter the wash or linear park, why push the parking lot? Violating the CC&Rs on Kachina is very troubling. Who and what area might be next for change-the-rules-as-you-go-politics? "

    lame article wrote on Nov 26, 2007 9:59 AM:

    " This is your typical lame Herald article. Someone reading it might get the false impression that a bunch of people actually tried to effect a Council vote. I am pretty sure most people, especially those who expend the extra effort to speak, understand that the Sierra Vista City Government Council vote sessions are merely a formality. The possibility of effecting a vote does not exist. "

    Check it out wrote on Nov 26, 2007 9:41 AM:

    " Somebody pointed out an access point at the Council meeting. I checked it out over the weekend. The information appears to be correct. The huge drainage ditch just beyond the water tanks on Kachina leads right into Garden Canyon Wash. And the ride from Cherokee shoulder parking took ten seconds. So why hasn't anyone informed the public that planned public access is currently avaialble. I have ridden my bicycle past that spot for years. I thought it was private land! "

    GardenCanyonWash.com wrote on Nov 26, 2007 6:59 AM:

    " We appreciate the comments from the mountain biker who has figured out how access upper trails without tearing up Garden Canyon Wash or cutting fences. Nor is he or she alone. We see scores of bikers coming up and down Kachina and Calle Encina daily. This scenic half mile stretch is not an issue for those truly out for a ten to twenty mile ride. By and large, the biking community has been very well behaved and they have earned a welcome in our neighborhood. "

    Buy low, sell High wrote on Nov 26, 2007 6:07 AM:

    " to nice: They only donate it because they can't do anything else with it. It is unbuildable in the floodplain. Plus, they get a nice tax write off. Believe me, they don't donate just because they are "nice" and care about the community. The only thing that matters are the stockholders. Maybe you should buy some stock, because next is Tribute. "

    nowhere wrote on Nov 26, 2007 6:03 AM:

    " Yes, I wonder where the parking lot to nowhere will go now that the fort is closed due to the city's parking lot and the state land is developed. Nice price tag for city taxpayers for nothing. Why would you start on the west end of the wash only to be able to head east towards the river? "

    To the city council wrote on Nov 25, 2007 8:50 PM:

    " As a mountain biker, I question your wisdom in trying to force a parking lot on Kachina. I enter and exit the wash above Kachina. I have a state trust land pass which had to be purchased. State trust land is not the same as US Forest or public land. No,I don't trespass. "

    Nice wrote on Nov 25, 2007 8:29 PM:

    " I think it is very nice of Castle and Cooke , to donate land. They wouldn't have to donate anything, or contribute to the community at all. "

    Amazing wrote on Nov 24, 2007 2:15 PM:

    " Amazing that Castle and Cooke seem so civic minded, then can donate land without access and expect to come out smelling like a rose. Perhaps people buying in Castle and Cooke's new developments better think twice because if the city can violate the CC&Rs on Kachina, who might be next. Cha-ching, cha-ching....money talks.....and the city listens...as does Supervisor Pat Call. "

    Double Standards wrote on Nov 24, 2007 9:31 AM:

    " The city traded their land in the wash for Castle and Cooke's higher ground of Tract A in Greebriar Estate for a park (across from the golf course). This area actually has access to it. The city surely has not been as concerned about the county residents when they accepted Castle and Cooke's 9 acres in the wash which with no access. Pat Call has been amazing with his lack of represtation of his area. "

    How blind can you be... wrote on Nov 24, 2007 9:21 AM:

    " that you can not envision what the city council has really done. They did not do their job when permitting Castle and Cooke to build fenced and gated communities from the city to the county along Garden Canyon Wash. Why didn't the city ask Castle and Cooke for an opening to their unbuildable, land- locked acres in the wash in 2006 when first-donated? Why isn't the city starting at Roadrunner Park and going out north-east and sout-west to provide for varying public use and for the most city residents use? The city is paying for this. "

    interested? wrote on Nov 24, 2007 9:03 AM:

    " Interested in local politics and a history of the land swap? see www.anybodybutcall.com "

    private owner wrote on Nov 24, 2007 8:40 AM:

    " Yes, it's attitudes like the access at any cost that will get more and more private property shut down. You'd think Arizona wasn't 75% public property already, but these people seem to want it all. "

    To Fletch wrote on Nov 23, 2007 10:46 PM:

    " Political bodies should make good decisions, such as not letting big builders shut off public access to the Garden Canyon Wash and the proposed Linear Park. This is what caused the problems to begin with so people used private property and trespassed. Another great decision was not to build Roadrunner Park in a timely fashiion. Roadrunner Park has been on the city maps in Vista 20-20 Plans for years. Why has the city removed the Vista 20-20 Plans from it's published information web site. Vista 20-20 provides more information than the city wants reviewed. "

    GardenCanyonWash.com wrote on Nov 23, 2007 5:39 PM:

    " To Fletch: Perhaps you noticed that what is left of the Wash is under two miles in length and one quarter mile wide. Comparing it to the National Forest is an absurd analogy. "

    To GCW wrote on Nov 23, 2007 4:37 PM:

    " What are you going to belly ache about, when this is a done deal? "

    biker wrote on Nov 23, 2007 4:25 PM:

    " Mountain bike clubs usually promote mountain bicycling opportunities that are environmentally and socially responsible. But I have seen in this community of bikers a few that ruin it for everyone. They are the ones that cut fences, trespass across private property, and push for access at any cost to the environment. Club, you need to clean house because you make us all look bad. "

    communist wrote on Nov 23, 2007 4:19 PM:

    " The majority or mob mentality by the recreationists who have pushed for this access at any cost sounds more like socialist or communist politics. I thought America was governed by rules and regulations (includin CCRs) that were in effect for the benefit of the people, but not for the benefit of the mob. In Sierra Vista, socialist politics win out. "

    You should know wrote on Nov 23, 2007 3:47 PM:

    " that if you sling mud and use name calling to make your point, it looks very childish and vendictive. As mom use to day, throw it around long enough and some of it is bound to stick on you. Why did the city land lock the Garden Canyon Wash areas by approving all of the developments cutting off wash access? The city chose to force the issue of a parking lot which caused the fort foot gate(gates) to be closed. The city used NIMBY: that is why Cherokee couldn't be their choice for access. "

    lazy wrote on Nov 23, 2007 7:03 AM:

    " To Trailhead: Did it ever occur to you that it is your responsibility to find public access points instead of trespassing across private property? Did it occur to you to ask permission? And do you realize that using private property is a privilege, not a right? Why haven't you gone to the county assessor to their maps to find access? There is currently an easement from Kachina that goes through to Suma. Is that too far for you? "

    to nimby wrote on Nov 23, 2007 6:52 AM:

    " i think you need a few lessons in spelling, too. tusch? "

    To Bicyclin' Hikin'Girl wrote on Nov 22, 2007 10:25 PM:

    " I'm not the person you blogged. If you re-read the 9:18 blog, dirt trail access would be acceptable. A parking lot, paved trails, lights, chem toilets, and other things that destroy the habitat in the wash are not acceptable. I personally would add no quads, motorcycles, etc. would not be allowed. Dog walkers would have to pick-up their dog's feces. "

    Fletch wrote on Nov 22, 2007 1:58 PM:

    " The cynical message by the great and powerful oz 'gcw.com' at 6:56 AM is actually what is 'rather telling'. By that same logic, we should never have allowed public conveniences in the National Forests and Parks because people are only there to soil those places. As for 'cram down politics', you can call it that if you like, but you really just sound like a sour-grapes sore loser. Political bodies make decisions. Decisions sometimes hurt. Here, only selfish landowners feel the sting. "

    GardenCanyonWash.com wrote on Nov 22, 2007 6:56 AM:

    " This is not a debate about trail access, this is a debate about convenience parking. It is about people who say they are nature hikers, but would rather destroy the Wash than walk an extra quarter mile to more suitable parking. These are not real hikers, these are dog poopers who are looking for a drive-thru doggy toilet. Have you noticed that they always talk about what is good for them, but never discuss what is good for the Wash and the wildlife? Rather telling isn't it. "

    CRAM DOWN POLITICS wrote on Nov 22, 2007 2:08 AM:

    " Sounds like Sierra Vista government has discovered CRAM DOWN POLITICS. Works really well when the electorate allows it to happen. Your only hope is at the polls. "

    Bicyclin' Hikin' Girl wrote on Nov 22, 2007 1:27 AM:

    " To the one who posted Nov 21, 9:18 PM: It sounds like you are willing to accept a trailhead (and parking lot) on the linear park's mountain side terminus. So you don't want pavement, lights and toilets? We are not far apart. "

    Pesky wrote on Nov 22, 2007 12:33 AM:

    " Jeez, I wish some of these bozos, like Hog Wash, could spell (we won't ask that they have even a high school education). NIMBY my fat tusch. "

    To Hog Wash wrote on Nov 21, 2007 11:15 PM:

    " You picked the right name for your non-sensical posting because it is Hog Wash. Besides, I believe in being natural, just as the south-west end of the proposed Garden Canyon Linear Park should be left in a natural state without a parking lot. Have a Happy Thanksgiving. "

    Hey spade caller wrote on Nov 21, 2007 9:41 PM:

    " You told it like it is. It is just a few locals, that think they are the only ones that matter. I have two words for them, but it would not be PC to use them. "

    Hog wash wrote on Nov 21, 2007 9:34 PM:

    " Garden Canyon Wash. has his/hers panties in a bunch, because they are if the ilk that NIMBY. "

    To spade caller wrote on Nov 21, 2007 9:18 PM:

    " The residents who live in the area of Garden Canyon Wash have never said they do not want the public to have access to the wash and the surrounding nature areas for recreational purposes. In fact at the city council meeting last night every one of the residents expressed how they were in favor of having public usage of this area. What is NOT wanted is paved parking lots, paved roads into the wash, lights, toilets, and other urban-style "developments" that will disrupt and destroy the natural habitat of the wash. "

    fooled wrote on Nov 21, 2007 7:02 PM:

    " Don't be fooled by Blanchard. It doesn't matter if he won't vote along with the other council members for the parking lot. All it takes is a majority for them to bulldoze it through. Blanchard knows this so he comes out smelling like a rose. The only reason they want this location is for a parking lot. How else will they justify it to people who are taxpayers, voters, and actually live in the city? "

    to spade caller wrote on Nov 21, 2007 6:59 PM:

    " No, I think gcw.com really are a bunch of individuals genuinely concerned about the ecology of the wash, unlike the current politicians in the city and county. Or you for that matter who must be a developer/construction person. The public already has multiple access points to the park. They are called Cherokee Avenue, Roadrunner Park at St. Andrews, BST/Hwy 90, and at least a dozen drainages. "

    to Jacque wrote on Nov 21, 2007 6:55 PM:

    " I think we have reason to be skeptical. First, the parking lot was hidden behind Agenda 10 from the May 24 council meeting. Then, Roadrunner Park is taken out of the "givens." Roadrunner Park has been on the books since at least 2002. There must be a reason the city has not proceeded with Roadrunner Park. Does anyone know what it is? "

    Trailhead is the Issue wrote on Nov 21, 2007 6:13 PM:

    " To the 3:59PM poster: Multiple access points (particularly on the termini) are what the recreational public need for their linear park. Did it ever occur to you that hikers and bikers might wish to exit/enter Garden Canyon Wash on the mountain side as part of a larger loop in which they are also walking/riding the streets? Do you only have one door to your house? "

    To spade caller wrote on Nov 21, 2007 3:59 PM:

    " It really sounds as if all you want is a parking lot in the wash. You can use any of the large cement drainage areas that are public right of ways to access the wash now. If you are riding or hiking, what'sthe difference.....except if your main purpose is the parking lot. "

    spade caller wrote on Nov 21, 2007 12:09 PM:

    " 'GCW.com' is a small group of residents who pretend to be environmentalists but whose hidden agenda is simply to control the crown jewel mountain side of the wash for their own selfish purpose and personal backyard enjoyment. All of the recreation enjoying public deserve multiple access points to the linear park. "

    Public access wrote on Nov 21, 2007 11:49 AM:

    " Someone pointed out that a large public access point already exists just a little ways from the City's proposal. Why didn't anyone say something before? The City obviusly isn't needed any more for me to mountain bike in the area. "

    Yeah for Blanchard wrote on Nov 21, 2007 11:36 AM:

    " He is the first to give a real opinion on the parking lot. All the others seem to waffle or lay down a smoke screen. "

    Jacque wrote on Nov 21, 2007 10:18 AM:

    " I only wish I understood why this action (the land swap) was necessary now? Makes me skeptical. "

    A question of eminent domain wrote on Nov 21, 2007 10:16 AM:

    " The question of eminent domain is not whether the city used it to attain the properety, which clearly they didn't, but what are they going to do to get around the CC&R's which every property owner in that subdivision must abide by. Will they violate the other property owners civil rights along with their right to contract. Just because the city owns it doesn't give them the right to do whatever they want. "

    If city access is the problem wrote on Nov 21, 2007 9:37 AM:

    " The city can use the huge paved drainage areas running through the housing developments to the wash. You could even drive a truck down some of them. They are leagal public right of ways. What is the city's next fairy tale? "

    neighbor wrote on Nov 21, 2007 8:58 AM:

    " I think it is hugely unfair that the SV Mayor, City Manager, City Council and all the other elected officials get to wield such power and authority over County residents who have no ability to vote them in or out. There is something really wrong with this picture. From last night's City Council meeting it is crystal clear that these City officials do not care one iota about what happens to those of us who live outside the city limits and near this beautiful natural area. "

    Thumbs up wrote on Nov 21, 2007 7:50 AM:

    " Two thumbs up for councilman Bob Blanchard! "

    GardenCanyonWash.com wrote on Nov 21, 2007 7:14 AM:

    " The City already has emergency access points available to their property in the Wash and consequently there was no compelling reason to not include this action in the public input process. Unfortunately the Council passed up an opportunity to demonstrate that they were actually prepared to take a careful, thoughtful and deliberate look at all the issues related to the Linear Park. By pushing blindly ahead on one of the most controversial issues in advance of the input sessions they have completely de-legitimized the input sessions before they have even begun.It is business as usual. "

    Waiting wrote on Nov 21, 2007 6:47 AM:

    " I am waiting for it to be approved. "

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